Flying High: Joys of Aviation & Writing with Jack Stewart
On today’s 206th episode of The Thriller Zone, host David Temple welcomes back author Jack Stewart to discuss his latest work in the Battleborn series, particularly the third book, Bogey Spades.
The conversation delves into Jack's experiences as a military pilot, insights from the Top Gun movies, and the realities of aviation training. They also explore Jack's writing process, his aspirations beyond military thrillers, and how his day job as a pilot influences his storytelling.
The episode provides a comprehensive look at the intersection of writing, military experience, and personal interests. In this engaging conversation, the host and guest explore various themes related to aviation, writing, and family life.
The discussion begins with the unique flight approaches in San Diego, transitioning into a deeper understanding of turbulence and its misconceptions. The conversation then shifts to the balance between writing and flying, highlighting the challenges and joys of both professions. Family dynamics and the importance of parenting are also discussed, showcasing the guest's pride in his children's achievements.
Finally, the conversation wraps up with insights into the underlying messages in the guest's writing and valuable advice for aspiring authors.
Learn more at JackStewartBooks.com
The Thriller Zone promises to wrap 2024 in a BIG way...Stay Tuned! Questions? Just write us at "thethrillerzone@gmail.com"
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- New York Times
- Tyndale
- Amazon
- Andrews Wilson
- Ryan Steck
- Jack Carr
- Tom Clancy
- Stephen King
- Michael Connolly
- TJ Newman
- Bob Dugoni
Transcript
Hey folks, Dave Temple here with a quick message about some exciting things coming to the Thriller Zone between now and the end of the year.
Speaker A:First of all, our upcoming guests include Robert De Goni, Steve Yerzani and Jack Stewart, all of whom are making a return visit in November.
Speaker A:Then in December, we welcome New York Times bestselling author Danielle Trusoni to the podcast with her masterful thriller the Puzzle Box.
Speaker A:You're gonna love it.
Speaker A:As well as enjoy a visit by our good friends David McCloskey and Adam Hemdy on separate podcast.
Speaker A:And as we the past we wrap the year with the Dave and Tammy year end extravaganza.
Speaker A:A surefire way to welcome in the holidays.
Speaker A:Say goodbye to this year as we welcome the new year.
Speaker A:Finally, a quick reminder, if you have a book coming out in the new year, do yourself a favor and submit your ARCS paper only sooner than later as we've been booking up about three months in advance.
Speaker A:And if you have an interest in sponsoring the show either in a big way or a small way, contact us@the thrillerzonemail.com and do it soon.
Speaker A:Okay, now let's get into the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:I'm your host, David Temple.
Speaker A:And on today's 206th episode, I'm happy to welcome back for a return face to face visit here in our home studios of the Thriller Zone in San Diego, my good friend and one of your favorite authors, Jack Stewart.
Speaker A:On today's show, Jack and I spend a good deal of time, given we're hanging out and breathing the same air, to the craft of writing specifically thrillers and in Jack's case, military thrillers.
Speaker A:Jack is now knee deep in book three of the battleborn thriller series with his newest, Bogey Spades.
Speaker A:And if you enjoy up close and personal conversations that lean a bit more languorous than most social media feeds these days, you'll enjoy today's show.
Speaker A:Today we discuss top maverick what it's like to fly both fighter jets and commercial airlines, the world of special forces, along with the grueling training and a whole lot more.
Speaker A:So let's get get to it with Jack Stewart right here on the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Last time we chat, by the way.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Thriller Zone, Jack Stewart.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Hey, happy to be here, huh?
Speaker A:Huh?
Speaker B:Handsome devil.
Speaker A:Yes, Beast Devil.
Speaker A:We talked last time about how busy you were.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm wondering how much of that busyness are you happy to share?
Speaker A:Because I was.
Speaker A:We had brunch down in Ocean Beach.
Speaker A:I think it was Ocean beach.
Speaker A:And when you told me what your schedule was like, I'm like, you are kidding me, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, I wish I was sometimes.
Speaker B:Sometimes I think I bit off more than I can chew, but I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker B:So I just want to keep, you know, keep striking where the iron's hot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, I think everyone knows that, you know, Battle Born series right now is a four book series and Bogey Spades is the third book in that series.
Speaker B:The fourth one, Declared Hostile, is available for pre order on Amazon now.
Speaker B:That one's going to be next August.
Speaker B:Well, that will come out next August and I'm also excited, you know, to, to begin a new series with Tyndale.
Speaker B: book will come out in May of: Speaker A:Now Tyndale, if I'm not mistaken, is a, has been traditionally a faith based group because my dad was in the ministry.
Speaker A:So I, I remember hearing that publisher many years back.
Speaker A:But let's see, I'm thinking of Andrews Wilson.
Speaker B:They were with them for a while.
Speaker A:Ryan Ste.
Speaker B:Yes, he has several books with them in the, the Matthew Red series.
Speaker A:But this book that's through Tyndale is not what you'd call faith based.
Speaker A:And when I say faith based, having grown up in the church, that always means kind of religious.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that doesn't have to be the case.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's something that.
Speaker B:So you know, Karen Watson, she had this kind of vision for men's fiction and to minister to men through fiction, which I think is a really cool thing.
Speaker B:And so they weren't looking for specifically books that are beat you over the head, you know, Christian themed, but still something that, number one, doesn't turn off a Christian reader, but number two, maybe inspires and delivers a message of hope, which I'm co writing that series with a guy named Chad Robichaux.
Speaker B:He's an incredible human, human being and if you haven't looked him up, you need to.
Speaker B:He does amazing things.
Speaker B:But one of the things that he does is he ministers to a lot of our military on the issues of resilience, spiritual resilience primarily.
Speaker B:But we wanted to write this series as a way of kind of reaching out to people who experience some of the same things that we have in our military careers and at least expose them to the idea that there is some hope out there.
Speaker B:So our character is a guy named Foster Quinn.
Speaker B:It kind of mirrors Chad's career a little Bit he was a Force Recon Marine.
Speaker B:And Foster deals with a lot of PTSD issues as the series progresses.
Speaker B:And we don't want it to be like, but PTSD is no big deal because I'm a believer.
Speaker B:No, we wanted him to really question his faith and to kind of experience what a lot of us have experienced in the military, which is, hey, I'm in the trenches, you know, I got mortar rounds coming in.
Speaker B:I got incoming enemy fire.
Speaker B:Maybe I don't necessarily believe all the stuff I believe every Sunday when I went to church as a kid.
Speaker B:You know, maybe I have doubts.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:So I think Karen and the team there at Tyndale have really appreciated that.
Speaker B:This is kind of a way of opening up that discussion, you know.
Speaker B:So I think whether you're a Christian reader, I think you'll enjoy it because you'll find elements of faith in there.
Speaker B:But if you're not Christian reader, you might also enjoy it.
Speaker B:And so that's our hope.
Speaker A:When I was reading, to refer back to Andrews Wilson when I was reading one of their books and I knew it was through Tyndale, it wasn't.
Speaker A:Again, like you said, it wasn't over.
Speaker A:Over the top and beat you over the head.
Speaker A:It was just kind of.
Speaker A:Just an added element of the story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And I appreciated that because when I first heard about this opportunity, I was like, jesus, this is going to be a bang year over the head kind of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I have a couple of things that I want to geek out on on my own personal.
Speaker A:Just things that I have.
Speaker A:I don't think I've ever asked you.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Because it's my show and I can do whatever I want.
Speaker A:I thought I would take this opportunity and a couple of them are going to be.
Speaker A:They're going to seem.
Speaker A:They may seem silly to you because you'll be like, really?
Speaker A:You don't know what that means, but I can.
Speaker A:I can declare my ignorance in advance and be okay with that.
Speaker A:So you were a Top Gun flyer pilot.
Speaker A:Yeah, sorry, see, I use the wrong word right there.
Speaker A:How much of, like, for instance, Maverick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How much of the movie that I saw is kind of what you lived in your life?
Speaker B:Well, so both movies, the original and then Top Gun, Maverick, you know, it's all.
Speaker B:It's all based on the school Top Gun and.
Speaker B:And neither movie is very accurate when.
Speaker B:When it comes to what Top Gun really is.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's not a competition.
Speaker B:You're not angling to be the best, you know, fighter pilot in your class.
Speaker B:Or anything.
Speaker B:There's no, there's no plaque, you know, for the alternates in the ladies room.
Speaker B:There's no trophy.
Speaker B:There's none of that stuff.
Speaker B:What it is, is a.
Speaker B:Is a very regimented training program to take pilots who are already pretty proficient in the airplane and teach them how to be tactics instructors so that they can go back to the fleet, to the other squadrons and teach guys how to do those missions.
Speaker B:So for Top Gun Maverick, let's say they're not going to take a bunch of Top Gun graduates from all over the fleet and bring them together for this mission.
Speaker B:Because theoretically, those guys are out there teaching everyone else in their air wing how to be just as proficient and just as tactical.
Speaker B:And so it just wouldn't happen that way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But that being said, I think the.
Speaker B:There is still a natural tendency to want to compete against your peers and be the best.
Speaker B:And so I think they kind of reflect that in the movie.
Speaker B:And that's pretty good.
Speaker B:The bantering that goes on between, you know, fighter pilots.
Speaker B:That's pretty common.
Speaker B:Pretty, pretty accurate.
Speaker B:The flying scenes themselves were very, very good.
Speaker B:I mean, the tactics probably are not accurate, but who cares?
Speaker B:It was a fun movie, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I remember hearing in an interview Tom Cruise was talking about, he wanted the experience to be as real for the viewer as possible.
Speaker A:So so much of that filming was, it wasn't.
Speaker A:He wasn't in a studio in a green screen.
Speaker A:He was literally in the jet.
Speaker A:He may not have been flying.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Because he was probably in the, he.
Speaker B:Was in the back.
Speaker A:Yeah, in the back.
Speaker A:But, you know, guy sitting at home doesn't know that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But, but, you know, the one thing I've always admired about Tom is he does so much of his own.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I know that I, I saw some interviews and he was saying he wanted every single one of the actors to be experiencing that as well.
Speaker B:So they all got to fly in the jets, they got to experience the G forces.
Speaker B:They got to feel what it's like wearing all that gear while, you know, pulling GS.
Speaker A:There's another question I've always wondered.
Speaker A:You have on a pretty fair amount of gear.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And gear, meaning you've got the flight suit, but then you have different kinds of breathing apparatuses.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But do you have some kind of a thing that, that puts pressure on your leg so that.
Speaker A:Yeah, explain that to me.
Speaker B:Yeah, so it was called a G suit or technically an anti G suit.
Speaker B:And it, they look like chaps, so they, they, they pull on over your legs.
Speaker B:There's, you know, zippers on both sides and it kind of, there's a cummerbund that kind of goes around your, your midsection and, and it has these air bladders that connect.
Speaker B:There's a hose that connects to the aircraft itself.
Speaker B:So as you pull G's, the, the jet forces air into the suit, inflates these bladders to basically put, to constrict basically, you know, your legs and your abdomen so that it keeps the blood from pooling in your lower extremities.
Speaker B:So as you're pull GS, the G forces are causing the, the blood to go from your brain down your body and you know, pull in your, basically your feet to the bottom.
Speaker B:And so if you do that where you lose blood in your brain, you black out.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You can't see and then you could completely pass out.
Speaker B:It's called G induced loss of consciousness.
Speaker B:And, and that's not a good thing when you're flying a really expensive jet, you know, and really fast, close to the ground.
Speaker B:So they, you wear this G suit.
Speaker B:It forces the blood back up and it only provides, I think one to two GS of protection.
Speaker B:So it's not much.
Speaker B:You still have to do some straining yourself.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm still.
Speaker B:Flexing all your muscles and, and forcing it and then breathing a certain way to kind of keep that pressure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:On it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you had to have passed out at some time in your training.
Speaker B:No, I, I haven't.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:They, they put you through what they call the centrifuge training.
Speaker B:And it's, you know, it's a thing that just spins and they, they spin it so fast that the centrifugal forces, you know, makes you feel G forces and they, they do it and they record you.
Speaker B:So you get a, you know, there's a camera like right in your face.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And you get to watch your, your, you know, your cheeks start to droop.
Speaker B:So you look like a, you know, 65 year old man.
Speaker B:When you're, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, whenever you go through the training and, and a lot of people do pass out and a lot of people, you know, it's very, very common.
Speaker B:I didn't, but it was very uncomfortable.
Speaker B:I did not enjoy.
Speaker A:So it would suffice to say that if you had challenges with vertigo, that might not be the career for you.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You probably have to have some pretty strong inner ear, you know, to, to handle this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And perfect vision.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Isn't that true?
Speaker B:Initially, when I got, when I started Pilot training.
Speaker B:You had to have 20, 20, uncorrected vision.
Speaker B:You weren't allowed to have Lasik.
Speaker B: LASIK surgery as long as it's: Speaker B:Once you finish training, then the.
Speaker B:The standards change.
Speaker B:You can, you know, wear glasses if you need to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you hadn't have gone in.
Speaker A:Gone into this career, what.
Speaker A:What other careers were you thinking about when you were.
Speaker B:So at one point in my life, I wanted to be a Disney animator.
Speaker B:I love drawing and.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, I used to draw Disney characters like Little Mermaid.
Speaker B:And, you know, I think to this day, I can still draw Mickey Mouse pretty.
Speaker B:You know, pretty well.
Speaker B:But that was one of my.
Speaker B:My dreams as a kid.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But honestly, when I found the Naval Academy, when I was like 8 years old, and.
Speaker B:And was pretty focused on that, I, you know, grew up in an aviation household.
Speaker B:My dad was a pilot.
Speaker B:My Mom's dad flew B17s in World War II.
Speaker B:So aviation has always been in my blood.
Speaker B:And, you know, at some point, you know, I was a runner and a swimmer in high school, so I thought maybe I'll be a Navy seal.
Speaker B:You know, this is right after Desert Storm, and I thought.
Speaker B:I was really fascinated with special operations and.
Speaker B:And so, you know, you hear the stories of, like, Jack Carr and how he discovered the seals.
Speaker B:I mean, I discovered them the same way.
Speaker B:He just stuck it out, and I just said, nah, that's too hard.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But, yeah, so I went to the Naval Academy thinking maybe I'd do that.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:I kind of waffled a little bit on what I was gonna do.
Speaker B:At some point, I decided I was going to be a Marine, and I was part of the.
Speaker B:The leatherneck or the Semper Fi society.
Speaker B:And I did leatherneck training as a midshipman, went to Quantico for a month, did some stuff with the Marine Corps for summer training, and then I came back from that, had a great time.
Speaker B:It was like Boy Scout camp for adults.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And shot a lot of guns and blew stuff up and marched around in the woods and loved it, but decided I didn't want to do that.
Speaker B:So I went back to my first love of aviation and decided to just be a pilot.
Speaker B:So if I didn't go in the military, I don't.
Speaker B:Honestly don't know what I would have done.
Speaker B:I really don't.
Speaker A:Disney animator.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's something I never knew about you.
Speaker A:I had no idea you had that artistic talent.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, it's debatable whether it's talent or not, but I did used to draw a lot.
Speaker B:I don't much anymore.
Speaker A:You know, I'm gonna have to pull out a pad and see what kind of good you got back to the Navy SEALs.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is as tough as everything you ever hear, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, there is no.
Speaker A:There is no.
Speaker A:We're gonna let you go on this one.
Speaker A:We're gonna let you slide.
Speaker A:There is none of that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I, I do think that, you know, after 9, 11 and the demand for special operations forces really increase.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They started.
Speaker B:I think there was a, A greater need for numbers.
Speaker B:And so I don't, I don't, I don't want to say that the standards were lower.
Speaker B:I don't think that's the case because I, I served with them, you know, downrange, and, and I do think that they're all, they are all very professional.
Speaker B:Of course, in any group, you've got some that, that make it through that probably don't deserve it, but.
Speaker B:But it's not what it was like in the 90s.
Speaker B:You know, in the, in, in the 90s, I think it was such a small force, it wasn't well publicized, you know, and, and so I think they could choose to be more exclusive.
Speaker B:But, but now that the, the numbers are up and so if you got a lot more people trying out for it, you know, I know I probably last like a day, maybe, you know, a day and a half tops.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:I think so, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, have you ever talked to.
Speaker A:The other Jack about what it was like?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, briefly.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, briefly.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, I have that most respect for any of those guys.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, who've done any of that kind of training, whether it be SEAL training, whether it be, you know, Special Forces, you know, qualification course, you know, Fort Bragg for the Army Green Beret, be the, you know, Marine Force Recon types, the Marine Raiders, I mean, and the special operations guys, the things that they go through, I think is just, you know, for, for training alone is challenging.
Speaker A:You know, I should know this because I watch enough television and films.
Speaker A:A little bit of a joke there.
Speaker A:But what is the very tip top of that fraternity?
Speaker B:So the, the Joint Special Operations Command is the command that has all the tier one special operations UN.
Speaker B:Like the 75th Ranger Regiment, Army's Delta Force, you know, SEAL team six.
Speaker B:Those are all.
Speaker B:They're the 24th Sts, which is the Special Tactics Squadron for the Air Force that provides the combat Controllers and jtax, the guys that call in air strikes for those units.
Speaker B:I mean that's so JSOC is the tier one.
Speaker B:That's, that's the very tip top.
Speaker B:And the thing about those units is that they, you know, they will do cross training, they will do cross assignments.
Speaker B:So like let's say a Navy SEAL can go to Delta Force, you know, and, and deploy with them and, and vice versa.
Speaker B:That's the top top, you know, and then from, from on down, then you, we, we like to say that that's like the dark side of special operations.
Speaker B:You know, it's the, the top secret.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:Right, it's, it was supposed to be hush hush until, you know, former presidents came out and said that SEAL team and then it was not so top secret anymore.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And then, and then you've got just the, you know, I don't want to say just the, the SEAL teams or just the Green Beret Odas or whatever because those, those guys are all tough too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What is the movie?
Speaker A:I'm thinking of?
Speaker A:Oh, geez, the guy from the Office.
Speaker B:Oh, you're talking about 13 hours.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I was going.
Speaker A:There's a number, number, number.
Speaker A:Thirteen Hours.
Speaker A:I don't know how many times Tammy and I have sat down.
Speaker A:13 hours is one of those movies that we may have already seen it last weekend and if we're grabbing lunch or something and all of a sudden it's on, we'll stop and we'll watch it again.
Speaker A:Even if it's midstream.
Speaker A:I don't know what it is about that film or a lot of these different action war oriented films that we're so enamored with.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It's great acting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it is a piece of history that we're all familiar with, but it's, it's just pure entertainment.
Speaker A:I want to get to Bogey Space, which by the way, love the COVID You, Whoever's put your Battleborn thriller series together really has got the branding down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Seven River.
Speaker B:They've done a really good job with all the covers.
Speaker B:I mean they're, I think they're fantastic.
Speaker A:This book starts out at a nice little slow simmer.
Speaker A:I'm reading the.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker A:And then it turns a page and the simmer up or the simmer increases a little bit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Drill down and tell me in a nutshell what the book's about and also how we pick up from where we left off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it doesn't really Quite exactly.
Speaker B:Pick up where Outlaw, which is the second book in the series, leaves off.
Speaker B:It kind of goes back a little bit to an unanswered question from book one.
Speaker B:So in book one, there was a trying to see if I can give this away or talk about it without giving it away for those who haven't read it yet.
Speaker A:See, that's why I'm leaving it to you.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:So there's.
Speaker B:There is a.
Speaker B:There's somebody who's a traitor in the military.
Speaker B:And you learn who that trader is in book one, an unknown writer.
Speaker B:But there's no real resolution because the good guys haven't discovered that person's identity yet.
Speaker B:What they.
Speaker B:What you do discover is that.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That there is a bigger conspiracy involving the Chinese than that you.
Speaker B:That you don't really know about beforehand.
Speaker B:So pick up now the beginning of Bogey Spades.
Speaker B:That traitor is back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And not only is that traitor back, but he ends up being captured by an unknown third party.
Speaker B:So what.
Speaker B:What's going on here?
Speaker B:Who.
Speaker B:Who's the real enemy?
Speaker B:And then it forces, like I like to say, you know, is the enemy of my enemy, my friend.
Speaker B:And that's kind of the situation that Emmy King, who's the NCIS counterintelligence agent in this book, what she is forced to ask because the person that she's been searching for, the person she's been hunting all along, comes to her and says, I need your help.
Speaker B:And so there ends up being a lot of questions about, okay, now who really is the bad guy?
Speaker B:And, you know, for people who know about tactical aviation, the titles of my books have meaning behind it.
Speaker B:So Bogey Spades is if.
Speaker B:If I'm running an intercept on another aircraft, and I don't know whether they are friend or foe, they're referred to as a bogey.
Speaker B:A bogey is an unknown.
Speaker B:But Spades means that they are not squawking a friendly code.
Speaker B:So when you take off in any airplane, you'll have a transponder, and that code allows air traffic control to know who it is.
Speaker B:We have something called Mode 4 in our aircraft that when we're flying overseas, another friendly aircraft or like an AWACS or somebody can interrogate you and say, okay, that's definitely a friendly, because it's got this friendly code.
Speaker B:So Bogey Spades means we don't know if they're good guy or bad guy, but we know for a fact they're not squawking a friendly code.
Speaker B:So what that means in terms of this book and the theme is we don't really know who the good guy or bad guy is.
Speaker A:Oh, I love that I didn't get that parallel because you always hear in movies, et cetera, oh, we've got a bogey on your.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you wouldn't say on your right side.
Speaker A:There's a.
Speaker A:Your phrase would be.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, we would say like 3:00.
Speaker A:3:00 there.
Speaker A:Yeah, it would be a.
Speaker A:Yeah, you got me the book.
Speaker A:Very first thing, I'm like, oh, I wonder who Bogey Spades is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I thought it was a, you know, like rattle off some of the names of the characters in Top Gun.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I thought Iceman, all that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I thought it was, oh, there's a guy named Bogey Spades.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I want to drill down on your process because we had brunch a couple weeks ago and I was.
Speaker A:And you know, I'm going to refer to this constantly because I'm.
Speaker A:Well, first, I'm a huge admirer of yours and you're such a good dude.
Speaker A:Tammy and I were talking last night.
Speaker A:She goes, when's.
Speaker A:When Jack gets in?
Speaker A:I'm like, you know, such and such.
Speaker A:And she goes, he's such a nice guy.
Speaker A:I'm like, he's such a good dude.
Speaker A:Like, just solid dude.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks, man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I want to drill down on technique because that's what, what I was so impressed with because you're, you know, us writers, we go, oh, I've got a book I've got to create.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:One off.
Speaker A:Oh, I might have a series going to be two or three.
Speaker A:Oh, I might go do a collaboration with someone.
Speaker A:Now you're in an entirely different world.
Speaker A:Hey, I may go right for a franchise system that would be another one.
Speaker A:And I just wonder a kind of how you keep it all straight.
Speaker A:And that may sound elementary, but what I'm trying to get at is having written a couple of different series.
Speaker A:You know, once you immerse yourself in a series, you know the people, you know the world, you know how their, their banter, their technique, their secrets.
Speaker A:Then you move into another one and you go, you don't want to cross pollinate them because you don't want to duplicate because that's lazy.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So kind of, how do you, how do you keep those worlds?
Speaker B:You know that.
Speaker B:I mean, that's a really good question.
Speaker B:Like, one thing that I do, I only write one book at a time.
Speaker B:So for instance, when I was writing Bogey Spades, I was focused on Writing Bogey Spades, I wasn't focused on one of my Tyndale books or another project.
Speaker B:And then if I have another book that's in the editorial process and I get notes back from the editor, then I will take for instance Bogey Spades, set it aside, and then I will kind of take some time to immerse myself back into that world for the other series, do what needs to be done on it for the editing process, send it back to the editor and then go back and pick up Bogey Spades and take some time to get reimmersed back in that world and then continue.
Speaker B:I'm sure there is still some cross pollination.
Speaker B:There's a project I'm working on now that I can't talk about yet, but there's a few times where I was like, wait, did I say cult in that one?
Speaker B:And I gotta do a little word search to make sure I didn't accidentally type cult, you know, and they're different characters.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's, you know, I wouldn't think that I would.
Speaker B:But you do have that kind of doubt sometimes.
Speaker B:But yeah, as far as, you know, each eat.
Speaker B:Like for instance, this series, the Battleborn series versus the Silent Horizon series that I have with, with, with Tyndale and Chad, that I see them as different movies, right?
Speaker B:And so in my head I'm watching a movie, so I, I press pause when I need to step aside and then I just go back and press play.
Speaker B:And maybe if I've forgotten a little bit, I'll rewind, you know, two or three minutes and press play again so I get a chance to see it in my head.
Speaker A:What do you love to watch in your downtime?
Speaker A:Like let's use this.
Speaker A:So maybe the wife and the kids are off shopping or whatever and it's just you and hanging out at home on a weekend.
Speaker A:What, what do you find yourself reaching the remote for?
Speaker B:Man, that's a really good question.
Speaker B:It depends on how much time I have.
Speaker B:Like it.
Speaker B:If it's like you know, just lunchtime, you know, and I just gonna watch something while I'm eating lunch, I'll turn on the news.
Speaker B:That's literally the only time I watch the news.
Speaker B:As soon as I'm done eating, I turn it off.
Speaker B:I don't want to listen to any more negativity and I just go back to my world.
Speaker B:But if I want to shut down my brain and not think about my projects that I'm working on, that's what I'm getting at.
Speaker B:Yeah, I will.
Speaker B:I Typically will watch a series I enjoy watching, like for instance Vikings.
Speaker B:I enjoy watching Rings of Power on Amazon.
Speaker B:Some fantasy, some historical stuff.
Speaker B:I think the Bosch series and the Lincoln Lawyer series.
Speaker B:Those Michael Connolly ones are fantastic.
Speaker B:I'll watch those.
Speaker B:Honestly, anything that has a compelling story I can find entertainment in.
Speaker B:So I'm not specific to one genre or the other.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:I, I like kind of along the same lines like things that I read for entertainment.
Speaker B:I will, I try to read things that are outside of the genre because I mean I will read my friends books when they come out, you know, to support them because I like their reading and their all very talented but I like to step out of that and like to read some science fiction, like to read some fantasy and other things.
Speaker A:And it's interesting that you'd mention fantasy because I was going to ask you do you ever find yourself wanting to branch out and write in an entirely different genre like sci fi or fantasy or even romance something?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think I would.
Speaker B:I mean I don't think that as a writer.
Speaker B:I think you, as a writer, you're a storyteller, period.
Speaker B:It doesn't really matter what genre you write in.
Speaker B:I think maybe back in the 80s, even earlier it was probably very important for writers to kind of be known as Tom Clancy is this guy, Stephen King is this guy.
Speaker B:But in today's day and age when you have limitless technology to your.
Speaker B:To reach out to readers, you don't have to be pigeonholed into that one specific genre.
Speaker B:Now there's, I'm sure people will argue with me and say that it doesn't make sense from a sales standpoint, you know, from a business standpoint to branch out.
Speaker B:But we're all creatives to one degree or another.
Speaker B:And if you have a story to tell that doesn't fit into what you've been writing, I think you should write it.
Speaker B:And I, I do have some ideas in the back of my head.
Speaker A:I love hearing that because we have had this conversation before and I've had this conversation with a number of people, especially when it comes to that phrase of write what you know.
Speaker A:And sometimes I'm like if you're just.
Speaker A:If you're a solid storyteller and Lee Goldberg and I were talk about this on a show a couple of weeks ago and he, and we were talking about how I was having this conversation with a Hollywood producer and he was inferring the fact, well, you should write what you know.
Speaker A:And, and Lee very quickly said well, I've never been a detective or A fireman or a policeman or a circus clown.
Speaker A:So that's why it's called a creative.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Who has imagination.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:I'm always a fan of people who go, you know, I got a story to tell.
Speaker A:If one day you wanted to sit down, I want to crank out a rom com.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I know you could do it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So to that point, writing is writing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, how many of these people, you know, have ever been a serial killer?
Speaker B:You know, like, they.
Speaker B:They haven't.
Speaker B:But in their mind, they can put themselves into that serial killer's mindset, and they can create this character that the reader believes is really that evil.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, like.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, to your point, you don't have to have lived it to understand human emotion.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, we.
Speaker B:We all have our.
Speaker B:Our emotions and.
Speaker B:And how we react to things, and you can project yourself into how you would feel in that situation.
Speaker B:And doesn't matter whether it's like you said, whether you're in a police cruiser, whether you're on a ship, whether you're in the sky, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker A:You know, for those folks who.
Speaker A:I'm sure everyone knows that you are an airplane pilot now for Southwest Airlines.
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker A:Do you ever find yourself using your knowledge and expertise in your writing?
Speaker B:I think the greatest part about my job, and I think the way I use it for research, number one, obviously, the locations.
Speaker B:You know, if I'm writing a book that takes place in San Diego, yeah, I can come to San Diego.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:The project I'm working on, there's a part that takes place in San Antonio.
Speaker B:So I hopped on a plane and flew down to San Antonio and spent the day there just, you know, looking up what I needed to look up, up.
Speaker B:So that part is great.
Speaker B:But I interact with a lot of people.
Speaker B:You know, not only the person sitting next to me in the cockpit, but I've got the flight attendants in the back, passengers, and, you know, some of the best people watching in the world is at an airport.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And I am in so many airports.
Speaker B:I see so many things.
Speaker B:And it really just gets you thinking about, you know, different character traits that you can employ in stories.
Speaker A:Oh, sure.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:And I don't think, think.
Speaker B:I mean, there could come a time, you know, I know TJ Newman is fantastic about, you know, writing about commercial aviation.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Kind of the.
Speaker B:The scary parts about it.
Speaker B:But the thing I.
Speaker B:I love most about her first book, Falling, is that she.
Speaker B:She has the interaction between these flight attendants, and they were so believable.
Speaker B:I've flown with those flight attendants, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, yes, those, those people are recognized and, and that's something that she could bring to that story.
Speaker B:And that is a thing.
Speaker B:I think if I were going to bring anything to a story from my day to day job, it's going to be the people, the characters.
Speaker A:It's funny that you should bring her up because I was just thinking about her right before you said it, and I was thinking that's one of the beauties of her first book.
Speaker A:And then with drowning her second book, it was even more palpable and putting her characters in really volatile situations.
Speaker A:You know, our only access to flight attendants is getting served by them, generally speaking, and they do a fantastic job.
Speaker A:One thing I did not know, and you're gonna, somebody's gonna think I'm an ignoramus.
Speaker A:But I did not know that they were trained to the degree that they're trained.
Speaker A:You know, I'm embarrassed to admit that I always thought they were basically a waitress, waitress in the sky.
Speaker A:And that sounds so demeaning and I don't mean it that way, but having read her work and then talked to her now three times, yeah, she goes, oh, no, we're trained to a serious degree.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, that's one thing.
Speaker B:And again, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, your day to day, if you are going to be flying on an airplane and they come by and they ask you, you, you know what your drink order is, you give it to them.
Speaker B:That's your interaction with them.
Speaker B:That's what you expect.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But, you know, I do work with them.
Speaker B:I do see the training they go through.
Speaker B:I do know how professional they are and how difficult it is.
Speaker B:I know that movie about solely landing the plane on the Hudson.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I watched that movie and there was that scene where the flight attendants are, you know, yelling, heads down, stay down.
Speaker B:As we're getting ready to land in the water.
Speaker B:And I got chills because I'm like, that's a profession that I'm proud of.
Speaker B:You know, the, the, the everybody, you know, from myself up as the captain to my first officer, to my flight attendants, our number one responsibility is to get you and your family where you need to go safely.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Like, I'm sorry, if you don't get your drink, if it's bumpy and unsafe, then we're, we're just going to worry about safety first.
Speaker B:And yeah, so I'm really proud of that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I wouldn't expect everyone to know it either.
Speaker A:I have such an admiration for pilots every single time I fly.
Speaker A:And as I'm walking down the aisle, I always have this urge to go, thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you for getting me here safely.
Speaker A:Because I realize that our lives are in your hands.
Speaker A:And sometimes they'll leave the door open and when I see the pilot come out, I'll go, thank you so much.
Speaker A:And it's so interesting to go see them acknowledge that, go, well, well, of course.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So big props to you for that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:What's one of the things that you, and you're a, you're a pretty, you're a very grounded, solid, even keeled guy.
Speaker A:I've never seen you sweat.
Speaker A:I've never seen you get nervous.
Speaker A:But what is something that happens when you get on a plane?
Speaker A:What is something that goes through your mind that you're always, you're like, okay, that you're always aware of, maybe you're silently afraid of, or you, you go, ooh, this is something I want to keep top of mind, honestly, or is it just another day at the office?
Speaker B:Well, you know, I don't want to say it's cavalier in the sense that I don't worry about stuff.
Speaker B:You know, I, I'm obviously, you know, if I'm flying somewhere, for instance, flying here to San Diego last night, and there was, there was some low ceilings.
Speaker B:And because of it, the approach that we use coming to San Diego, normally you fly landing to the west, so you land Runway two seven.
Speaker B:But those approaches don't get you low enough for the ceilings that we had here.
Speaker B:And so we had to land Runway nine.
Speaker B:So that's not, I've done it twice, you know, in how many years have I been flying and how many times have I landed in San Diego?
Speaker B:So that was unusual.
Speaker B:So that, that raises the, the, the, the pressure a little bit because I'm not as familiar with that approach.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not as familiar with that.
Speaker B:It's not routine.
Speaker B:And then obviously as the weather is a little bit worse, you're just, you're raising your level of awareness a little bit more.
Speaker B:I don't want to say it doesn't make me scared, doesn't make me nervous.
Speaker B:I mean, I feel very comfortable doing it had no problems at all last night, but it, I just can't be as relaxed as I normally am, you know, so if something's out of the ordinary, that's when we'll start, start to Kind of put a little bit more emphasis on paying attention to what we're doing.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:For those who don't know, ceiling is cloud cover.
Speaker A:So, yeah, if the ceiling is low, the cloud.
Speaker A:Clouds are low.
Speaker A:Makes it harder to land because you.
Speaker A:You don't get visibility until much later in the flight.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, for instance, the approaches coming from the east of landing to the west, I think the.
Speaker B:The minimum altitude that you can fly those approaches to is about 7ft.
Speaker B:And the cloud cover here in San Diego the last couple of days is varied, you know, between 300 to 500ft.
Speaker B:So that means if we were to fly one of those approaches, we would still be in the clouds.
Speaker B:We're trying, and.
Speaker B:And we couldn't go any lower, so we'd have to do a missed approach, go around.
Speaker B:But if we land at the other.
Speaker B:From the other direction from the west, those approaches can get you down to 200ft.
Speaker B:And so you get below the clouds, and then you can see the Runway, and it's right there, and it's beautiful, and you land.
Speaker A:One of the things that, as I continue to geek out over my home city here of San Diego that they love, is when you're coming in on San Diego, you're.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:If what feels like you're on the top of all these buildings.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you can sit downtown at any given moment, look up, and you're just.
Speaker A:You can see in the windows.
Speaker A:You guys are landing so close.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's really cool.
Speaker A:Not a lot of cities do that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know there's.
Speaker B:There's very few.
Speaker B:I know there's a.
Speaker B:Probably my favorite approaches to fly are here in San Diego for that reason, because you do fly right by downtown, which is pretty cool.
Speaker B:I like flying into Reagan national in Washington, D.C.
Speaker B:especially coming from the north, because you follow the.
Speaker B:The Potomac river and you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Just right down your left side, you can look out and you can see the National Mall, you can see the White House, you can see the Capitol building, You can see everything.
Speaker B:And we have to stay over the water of the river or to the west, because if you go on the other side, you enter prohibited airspace.
Speaker B:And there's lights that'll warn you, like, don't go this way because, you know, we could shoot you down kind of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But so that's a really fun approach to fly.
Speaker B:And then also going into LaGuardia in New York.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Because a lot of times they'll take us right up the Hudson and you'll just fly right, right By Manhattan.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a really cool view.
Speaker A:What is something that.
Speaker A:That happens on a daily basis or happens when you're flying?
Speaker A:I've always wondered this.
Speaker A:What is something that the general audience doesn't know?
Speaker A:99 of us.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Will never get to go into a cockpit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I find that, first of all, part of this geeking out is I love to fly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I've always loved to fly.
Speaker A:I like anything to do with elevation.
Speaker A:I started on my pilots, private pilots, haven't gotten through it.
Speaker A:It's very expensive hobby.
Speaker B:Very expensive.
Speaker A:I'm fascinated about what goes inside that room.
Speaker A:Not only is it a world that, again, 99% of us, 99.9 will never see.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think of all the buttons and knowing what all.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I think the biggest misconception people have is with turbulence, you know, if you're a passenger, I think your assumption is that the pilots know when turbulence is going to happen.
Speaker B:They know how to avoid it.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:And that's just simply not true.
Speaker A:Like, how would you know it?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah, it would be.
Speaker B:You know, there's certain clouds that if I fly into, I'm like, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be bumpy, but then sometimes they're not right.
Speaker B:You know, so we.
Speaker B:We just use our experience to judge.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But people don't really understand what turbulence is.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They worry a lot about it.
Speaker B:Like, you know, they worry if it's really bumpy, that that's somehow unsafe.
Speaker B:And that's so not true that I wish I could get more of the word out to people, like, hey, it's going to be bumpy.
Speaker B:But it's totally ne.
Speaker B:None of us are worried.
Speaker B:Like, we're up front just kind of bouncing around and not even thinking about it.
Speaker B:But the fact of the matter is, I try to explain it like this.
Speaker B:If you were to jump into a river, there's parts of the river that are fast flowing, there's parts that are slow, there's parts that it maybe turns right, turns left.
Speaker B:You can't necessarily see it.
Speaker B:Sometimes you can, but sometimes you can.
Speaker B:And that's what's happening in the air.
Speaker B:There's currents, you know, they're moving left, right, up, down.
Speaker B:And if, unless there's cloud formations that are being affected by it, you would never know.
Speaker B:We call it clear air turbulence.
Speaker B:And so we do our best to guess based on meteorological conditions.
Speaker B:But we have a new application that we use at Southwest.
Speaker B:Now you can put in your route of flight, and then it uses other airplanes who are also connected to the same server that to sort of report, like Waze does, turbulence.
Speaker B:So if their iPad measures a certain jostle, they'll say, oh, this is light turbulence.
Speaker B:And they'll put a little color, a yellow color on the screen.
Speaker B:If it's harder, it's maybe a moderate turbulence, and they'll put an orange color on there.
Speaker B:And so everyone else that's flying can see that.
Speaker B:And so that's what we're using now to try to predict it.
Speaker B:But even sometimes I'll fly through it.
Speaker B:I'm like, there was nothing there.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So we do our best to, to, to, you know, find the better rides to talk to each other and find out, hey, how's this altitude?
Speaker B:Oh, that one's reported.
Speaker B:Smooth.
Speaker B:Okay, we want to go there.
Speaker A:So if you're flying at 30 and it's rough.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:You could go to 35 or 40.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can go up, you can go down.
Speaker B:It all depends on, you know, if you go down, you're going to burn more gas.
Speaker B:You got to make sure you have the gas for it.
Speaker B:You know why?
Speaker B:Because thinner areas, just the way jet engines work.
Speaker B:Jet engines, when you're at lower altitude, dude, you know, they're, they're less efficient.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because of the, the density of the air and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's so much we're learning today, isn't there?
Speaker A:Isn't that fascinating?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we now know of your far past in your current situation, being a pilot.
Speaker A:Do you how, and I think I asked you this at brunch the other day.
Speaker A:How long do you think you have left before you can say, I'm writing full time?
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:Well, that's a really good question.
Speaker B:You know, Ward Larson, who's a good friend of mine, is also a pilot, he's a captain at Southwest Airlines, and he is far more experienced in writing than I am.
Speaker B:He has so many books published right now and he's still doing the job.
Speaker B:And I mentioned it to him one time and I was like, like, you know, Ward, I think I want to do this for five more years and then retire.
Speaker B:And, you know, if I'm successful enough, that's going to work.
Speaker B:He's like, you're not going to want to retire.
Speaker B:I'm like, I'm not.
Speaker B:And he showed me his schedule and his seniority.
Speaker B:He gets the two day trip to Aruba and then, you know, gives away the rest of his trips.
Speaker B:So I'm like, okay, you're right.
Speaker B:I can do that.
Speaker B:My seniority is pretty low where I am in Dallas.
Speaker B:And that means that I get, you know, weekends, three day trips reserve.
Speaker B:I probably work every holiday for the foreseeable future.
Speaker B:So it's a little bit hard for me to see that way.
Speaker B:The good news is, for a writer, being a pilot is probably the best profession in the world.
Speaker B:You know, I'll have overnights in hotels.
Speaker B:Like this morning before I came here, I sat on my balcony at the marina and looked out over the water and I can do some writing there.
Speaker B:I can have a cup of coffee.
Speaker B:I don't have kids bothering me, you know, at home.
Speaker B:And so it's a really, it is a really good job.
Speaker B:So right now I'm able to juggle both.
Speaker B:I don't know how long I want to do it, but, you know, I'm sorry.
Speaker B:If somebody's going to offer me a million dollars a year to write a book, I'll probably think about retiring.
Speaker A:You're on your way.
Speaker B:Yeah, I hope.
Speaker A:Do your kids, which, which do your kids think is cooler?
Speaker A:Dad is a pilot or dad is a world recognized author?
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:They probably think pilot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They honestly don't care that I write books.
Speaker B:I mean, they probably think it's cool, but they're like, whatever.
Speaker A:Have they read your work?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:In fact, my oldest, my oldest son said, dad, I'm gonna read your book.
Speaker B:I'm like, well, I really appreciate that.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:And so two days later I'm like, how's it going?
Speaker B:He's like, well, I put it aside.
Speaker B:I'm like, he didn't, didn't read it?
Speaker B:He's like, no, I'm decided to read the Bible instead.
Speaker B:And I thought, I can't really be upset at that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Number one, that's probably a much more wholesome book to read than mine.
Speaker B:But also it's the number one best selling book in the history of the world.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I'm hoping that he picks it up after he finishes the Bible.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And this makes me think of I often.
Speaker A:This is a question I had back in the day and I think I'm going to start bringing it back.
Speaker A:I like to know what are on my author's nightstands and I use it metaphorically.
Speaker A:TBR Stand to be read nightstands, your office stand every.
Speaker A:What are, what's a book or two that you have set aside for yourself that is not something you're working on, is not one of your pals books that maybe you're reading to blurb, but just something you're like Oh, I want to carve out some time for me and just sit down and get lost in this book.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:Right now I'm reading a fantasy novel.
Speaker B:The author is a well known thriller author who, who has this relatively successful series and fantasy.
Speaker B:Who is it trying to remember?
Speaker B:I can't think of the name.
Speaker A:Man or woman.
Speaker B:Man.
Speaker B:Anyway, anyway, you're reading.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I'm reading fantasy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:James Rollins.
Speaker B:It's called the Starless Crown, I think, and it's a, it's a fantasy.
Speaker B:And he, he actually dedicated it to Terry Brooks, which is one of the reasons why I picked it up.
Speaker B:Because Terry Brooks was one of the authors that I read when I was a kid.
Speaker B:He's from the Pacific Northwest and he wrote a series called Mag Magic Kingdom for sale.
Speaker B:Sold.
Speaker B:Or that was the first book in the.
Speaker B:The Magic Kingdom series.
Speaker B:But it was about a guy, I think he was an attorney in Seattle or something.
Speaker B:And he's walking through the woods or, or he like, he, oh, it's like a catalog and, and there's a Magic Kingdom for sale.
Speaker B:It's like this really exclusive catalog and it's like, yeah, whatever, but I'll buy it.
Speaker B:So he buys this Magic Kingdom, is walking through the woods and ends up in this fantasy, you know, this fantastical world.
Speaker B:And so growing up in the Seattle area that was always, you know, really.
Speaker B:Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:You know, there's unicorns and there's dragons and there's knights and all this stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I think I saw that he had, you know, his blurb was on the COVID of this book and I was like, wow, this is different, you know, So I picked it up.
Speaker A:Speaking of Seattle, I'm reading Bob Degoni's Beyond Reasonable Doubt.
Speaker A:He'll be on the show.
Speaker A:And Bob is a hell of a writer.
Speaker B:Yeah, he really is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's so funny.
Speaker A:I often wonder.
Speaker A:Sometimes I wish I could be inside my listeners minds and hear what they would say.
Speaker A:That Temple man, I don't know, he says the same thing sometimes.
Speaker A:Hey, he's got a great, he's a great writer.
Speaker A:She's a great writer.
Speaker A:And I may say that about a lot of different people.
Speaker A:Maybe it's because I hold most authors in very high regard because it is quite a gift, it is quite a talent.
Speaker A:I mean, I write myself, so I know.
Speaker A:And the hours it takes to put into it, but it's so fascinating to me and I wish I could tell you how and why, but I can't.
Speaker A:How I can pick up one book and I'm just picking Bob Degoni because I was reading it.
Speaker A:I'm reading yours and Bob Degoni's and one more all simultaneously because I'm kind of stacked up here.
Speaker A:There's certain things about certain authors that.
Speaker A:And this is what I'm getting to.
Speaker A:Finally, the process disappears, the mechanics disappear.
Speaker A:You're so pulled into the story.
Speaker A:Generally, I'm most attracted to and fond of great characters.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If your character is well fleshed out out and has real risks that they're going through trials and tribulations that.
Speaker A:Trying to overcome.
Speaker A:I get to see the strength of who they are as a character.
Speaker A:I get to see their heart.
Speaker A:I'm all in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you're a cardboard cutout or it's a mechanical.
Speaker A:Mechanical devices.
Speaker A:And you know what I mean by that.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I see through it really fast and I have a hard time reading it.
Speaker A:And maybe I'm getting more and more this way because we all have less time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I'm not as willing to spend a lot of time with certain writers anymore.
Speaker A:If you're making some of the simple mistakes or you're not giving me great characters, if you're just going through, I'm gonna make this.
Speaker A:Shoot them up.
Speaker A:Bang, bang.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think it's kind of what I was getting at earlier, talking about the people that I get to see on a daily basis on my job and in airports and stuff.
Speaker B:You realize how many different people there are in the world and how many characters there are in the world.
Speaker B:And I completely agree with you.
Speaker B:When I'm reading a book, if it's the same Jason Bourne type character, if it's the same this guy that doesn't have any faults, this guy that or has the same fault, it's so cookie cutter.
Speaker B:It's so, so repetitive.
Speaker B:And I always try to.
Speaker B:In my head, I.
Speaker B:I have this thing where I call it the.
Speaker B:The mini skirt on the moped.
Speaker B:And the reason for that is because I used to live in New Orleans and I used to drive to work through the French Quarter every day.
Speaker B:And one day I was driving through the French Quarter and I saw this woman who was.
Speaker B:I mean, she looked like a professional.
Speaker B:She wore, you know, this.
Speaker B:This really elegant, like, you know, pencil skirt, and she wore like, like.
Speaker B:I mean, she.
Speaker B:She was a professional.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Riding a moped.
Speaker B:And you would not expect to see this woman riding a moped through the French Quarter in New Orleans.
Speaker B:And I thought it was so contrasting.
Speaker B:I was like, that has to be a character.
Speaker B:I mean, there has to be a reason.
Speaker B:Does she always ride a moped dress like that?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Does she wear.
Speaker B:Does she only ride the moped to work?
Speaker B:You know, So I started asking myself those questions.
Speaker B:So when I create characters in my stories, that's what I.
Speaker B:I kind of think of that, like, what makes this person different than the last character I made?
Speaker B:You know, what makes them stand out, what makes them real?
Speaker A:You know, it's so funny.
Speaker A:And you referenced this earlier.
Speaker A:One of my favorite places to hang out, oddly enough, is an airport.
Speaker A:Because to me, kind of what you referred to a minute ago, Jack, you're basically looking at a world of characters, and all you have to do is see this person and take a piece of it.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:And cross reference it with this person.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, I.
Speaker A:I used to say that if.
Speaker A:If I ever had a.
Speaker A:A brain fart or a, you know, a frozen moment or a writer's block, I'd go to a coffee shop, grab a cup of coffee, ingest some caffeine, and then just sit and listen to conversations and watch people.
Speaker A:Maybe not even take my laptop in.
Speaker A:And it would do this great little reset.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, that guy had a really curious way about him.
Speaker A:And I overheard some of that conversation, and then I'll take it and I'll weave it into a book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You ever do that?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I used to write a lot in my hotel rooms on overnights.
Speaker B:And then I was talking to Mark Graney, and he said that he can't do it.
Speaker B:He can't write in his hotel rooms.
Speaker B:He has to go to a coffee shop.
Speaker B:He has to go to the lobby.
Speaker B:And so that's what I do now.
Speaker B:And there is truth to that, because even if you're not.
Speaker B:Not engaged in conversations, you feel the energy, you know, so you are.
Speaker B:You aren't gonna just sit there and be like, I need a nap and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, go climb into bed.
Speaker B:So you feel the energy, but also you are seeing different characters.
Speaker B:You are seeing interactions.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:You're getting fed all this information, all the stimulus that can pour into your writing.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's what I do.
Speaker A:Now, here's a.
Speaker A:One of my favorite places to write.
Speaker A:And I bet you, you don't do it because you're too busy, is flying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, if I've got.
Speaker A:Because I fly the East Coast a lot.
Speaker A:Street family, five hours.
Speaker A:Between five and six hours, I'm like, you know, how much writing I can get done.
Speaker A:Because you're not going anywhere.
Speaker A:You're not doing anything.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I've seen all the movies already.
Speaker A:I've read.
Speaker A:I don't need to read a book because I, I read for a living.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:And I, and I do write on airplanes.
Speaker B:Not while I'm flying them, but a lot of times.
Speaker B:No, I don't.
Speaker B:I, while I'm flying, I, I'm, I'm definitely engaged in my job and, but my brain is always thinking, for sure.
Speaker B:But we have these things called deadheads where they need to reposition us to another city to catch a flight, and so we'll be in the back.
Speaker B:And I always break out my laptop.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I always work on, you know, putting down those words that I've been thinking about all day.
Speaker A:What is something that.
Speaker A:This is such a funny, loaded kind of question.
Speaker A:What's something about you that your average bear, who is, who reads your books, knows you were in the military, knows you're a pilot.
Speaker A:What's something they don't know about you?
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Well, if they don't know about me, they probably, probably because I don't want them to know it about me.
Speaker B:No, I, I, I am a, I'm a pretty private person in terms of my family, and I have a wife and I have three kids and, and I, I definitely try to keep them out of the spotlight, sure, some.
Speaker B:But things that they don't know about me, I'm just going to brag on my kids for a little bit.
Speaker B:So my, my oldest son is a freshman at Texas A and M University, and on his own, he, he wanted to go into sports, professional sports management.
Speaker B:And so on his own, he, he got a job with the Texas A and M football team.
Speaker B:And, and so he's doing that and pursuing a degree in statistics and, and probably a minority in sports management so that he can, you know, one day work for an NFL team in the front office.
Speaker B:So I'm really proud of him.
Speaker B:And, you know, kind of, he's taking the bull by his home, by the horns and doing that.
Speaker B:My, my other son is a junior in high school.
Speaker B:He plays water polo like his older brother did.
Speaker B:But, but he, he, that's his passion, and he is looking to play in college, and we have some interest from schools, including my alma mater of Navy, and that's his first choice.
Speaker B:So hopefully, you know, that, that pans out and he can, he can go to the Naval Academy like, like his old man and, and play water polo there and maybe even be At a pilot.
Speaker B:That'd be pretty cool.
Speaker A:That's a legit sport, dude.
Speaker A:You have sport shape.
Speaker B:Yeah, we, my wife and I travel a lot to obviously all the high school games, but you know, there's tournaments in California, you know, that we go to every summer.
Speaker B:And it's, it's one of my favorite things, favorite pastimes is to go to the water polo games.
Speaker B:They're, they're short, they're fast or ferocious.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty fun.
Speaker B:And then, and then I have a daughter who's in middle school and for last couple of years she was the Texas state beam champion in, for her level in gymnastics.
Speaker B:And is that the one single beam?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, the, the balance beam, yeah.
Speaker B:So she was the state champion in that.
Speaker B:She's continued to do it in 20 hours a week, I think in training.
Speaker B:I mean, it's something ridiculous.
Speaker A:Date champ.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:And what does she want to do with that?
Speaker A:Or is this just something she really excels?
Speaker B:She, well, she excels at it.
Speaker B:And I'm, I, I think, you know, my wife and I are trying to encourage her to, to, to kind of keep, keep going, keep advancing, but she's deciding whether she wants to do that or go into cheerleading and do the high school cheer, you know, with which I can also understand.
Speaker B:We just really want our kids to have a well rounded childhood experience things they want to experience and freedom to pursue their passions.
Speaker B:Of all my kids, my daughter is the most creative one.
Speaker B:She likes to draw, she likes to write.
Speaker B:She has one of those Cricut machines where you can print labels and stuff, and she does iron on T shirts and stuff.
Speaker B:And she's got a little business going, so entrepreneurial spirit and creativity.
Speaker B:So real proud of her.
Speaker B:And, and obviously with my travel and my work schedule, you know, if it wasn't for my wife, you know that none of those kids would be half as successful as they are.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I wouldn't be half as successful as I am either.
Speaker A:Isn't it amazing?
Speaker A:And I hope I say this to Tammy all the time.
Speaker A:I think I do.
Speaker A:My world is a much better place because of her.
Speaker A:And if it wasn't for.
Speaker A:And women have an ability to, to multitask and find the best in everything and make sure everything is running efficiently.
Speaker A:It's just amazing to me how many things she has going.
Speaker A:It's the multitasking.
Speaker A:Like I remember this when my mother was alive, she had this ability.
Speaker A:She could be reading a book or typing something.
Speaker A:She was always Writing or reading.
Speaker A:And I'd come in, I'd start a conversation.
Speaker A:She'd have the TV on, the radio would be on the background.
Speaker A:I'd be talking to her, but she didn't seem to be paying attention to me.
Speaker A:And she'd be doing all these different things, and I would say, ma, you didn't even hear me.
Speaker A:And she'd stop and turn around.
Speaker A:She would spit it out word for word, and I would go, ma, how do you do that?
Speaker A:You were typing, reading a book, TV's on.
Speaker A:She goes, that's what a mother does.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They definitely have some skills that I think generally men do not have.
Speaker A:This happens between Tammy and I all the time.
Speaker A:She'll come in, and I'll be just like you.
Speaker A:I'll be working on something or I'll be editing to the show.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And she'll come in and start talking to me and.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, that's great.
Speaker A:Yeah, you go ahead and do that, and I'll keep working.
Speaker A:She'll come in a few minutes later.
Speaker A:She goes, are you gonna do that thing that I asked you?
Speaker A:I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I came in here a second ago.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, no, I.
Speaker A:I didn't hear you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:She goes, but you sat there.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yeah, but, yeah, I wasn't there.
Speaker B:Yeah, because our brains are focused on whatever that task is.
Speaker B:I mean, that's why I think men and women work so well together, because, you know, we're.
Speaker B:We're focused on, you know, the one task that needs to get accomplished, and women are up looking for the threats and the danger, and.
Speaker B:And then they got to smack us around every now and then and say, like, get supplement at that.
Speaker B:Look at that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and.
Speaker B:Oh, that's the biggest bear.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I want to make sure that I give plenty of attention to Bogey Spade.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So what are you hoping that people will take away from this book, or is it just.
Speaker A:I hope they enjoy the rest?
Speaker B:Well, you know, I.
Speaker B:I would say this series in particular, it.
Speaker B:It's the.
Speaker B:The one underlying message that through the whole series is that I want people to realize kind of what threats are out there.
Speaker B:So in the first couple books, like the.
Speaker B:The Chinese intelligence threat is a really, really pervasive threat, really everywhere.
Speaker B:But in my books in California, and anybody can pick up the New York Times on any given day and read an article about Chinese espionage in the United States, and a lot of it is here In California.
Speaker B:That's not a knock on California.
Speaker B:That's just how pervasive it is.
Speaker B:I'm sure we have it in Texas as well.
Speaker B:So I want.
Speaker B:I wanted to expose that.
Speaker B:I wanted people to be able to walk down the street and not just think like, oh, that's just a normal person.
Speaker B:No, that could be a spy.
Speaker B:That could be somebody that's trying, you know, to do some.
Speaker B:Some harm, open their eyes a little bit.
Speaker B:It's kind of what the whole series I want.
Speaker B:But more than that, it's just an entertaining.
Speaker B:It's just an entertaining series.
Speaker B:I'm not trying to preach to anybody.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:Not trying to beat people over the head and say, vote this way or vote that way.
Speaker B:I just want people to enjoy it and give them a glim into, you know, my life as a fighter pilot and what I experienced for a while.
Speaker B:So there is a little bit of that in, in Bogey Spades.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I talk about Tailhook, the Tailhook convention, which as a fighter pilot and then Navy is.
Speaker B:Is like the one convention every year where we all meet in Reno and we get to tell tell stories.
Speaker B:Some of them true, some of them false.
Speaker B:You know, about our time when we were landing on aircraft carriers.
Speaker B:Warriors.
Speaker B:And so I talk about that a little bit in the book.
Speaker B:I talk about the area around Reno and Fallon, which is where Top Gun's located.
Speaker B:So I'm just kind of giving the reader a glimpse more into what it was like for me in the military.
Speaker B:And then the one thing everyone always asks me, in fact, my crew is asking me last night, do I have to read the books in order?
Speaker B:And what I like to say is every book is standalone.
Speaker B:You could pick up Bogey Spades and enjoy the story from start to finish.
Speaker B:Finish.
Speaker B:But if you had started at book one, you will find things that other people won't know.
Speaker B:If you've read the whole series, you will find little Easter eggs that mean something to you.
Speaker B:And I try to do that through all my books so that it does make it a little more meaningful.
Speaker B:Where book three is connected to book one, book four is connected to book two and three.
Speaker B:So it all kind of blends together.
Speaker B:So I hope they find an entertaining read and I hope that at the end of it they pre order Declared Hostile, which is book four.
Speaker A: ostile comes out in August of: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And how many more Battleborns do.
Speaker A:Have you thought that far ahead?
Speaker A:Have you?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm contracted to write four.
Speaker B:So the fourth one I, I close pretty much all the story arcs with declared hostile.
Speaker B:I think I tie everything up neatly was probably one of my proudest accomplishments and, and so I think it could end.
Speaker B:I've really enjoyed writing those characters.
Speaker B:I hope that I have an opportunity to write more.
Speaker A:Have you heard the conversations that we've had?
Speaker A:I had this with Brian Freeman.
Speaker A:As to the success and or failure of series and the specific number in the series.
Speaker A:It seems that, and I may be wrong if I am, go ahead and lambast me on comments.
Speaker A:But it seems that part of Amazon's algorithm, I'm going to use that as a general catch all likes three book.
Speaker B:Series I do agree with you there.
Speaker B:There's a few reasons for it.
Speaker B:So let's say I were to had discovered Mark GR today, okay.
Speaker B:And I pick up his latest Gray man novel and I go, oh wow, this is number what in a series.
Speaker B:And it's kind of daunting to have to go all the way back to the beginning and read all of them.
Speaker B:And again, he's the same way.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You could read that one book by itself and enjoy it.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But if you have the whole catalog behind you, it, it's more enjoyable.
Speaker B:You, you pick up more, you know, more.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's richer.
Speaker B:But I could see how that could be daunting so on as a, as a new reader.
Speaker B:And so I do find that like Thomas or Mercer, an Amazon publishing company, that they will do like three book series and then they ask their writers to move on to another one and another one and another one.
Speaker B:And that's I think is a pretty good business model from the standpoint of, hey, you can get somebody on, let's say your third series, they discover you, well, they can read that three book series.
Speaker B:Oh, what else does he have?
Speaker B:He has these other three book series.
Speaker B:I can read this three book series.
Speaker B:It's not as daunting.
Speaker B:You know, it might still be the same number of books, but you know.
Speaker A:I think that's the word in it.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, Daunting.
Speaker B:I think, I think it seems daunting.
Speaker B:And talking to a few of my friends who are, you know, with that publisher and, and they, they find that every new series kind of, they see an increase, there's some buzz around a new series and so they see sales and so from a marketing perspective and from a sales perspective it probably makes sense.
Speaker A:You know, every once in a while on this show I have my guests rapid fire question me or, or, or drill down on questions they've always wondered about the show I'm not looking for any attention, but because we've become such good friends and you catch a lot of this show.
Speaker A:I know, know you're a fan.
Speaker A:Is there anything that you have ever, while you're driving or working out or running or whatever that you listening to the show and you go, man, one of these days I want to ask Dave this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I want to know when you have time to write.
Speaker B:I mean you.
Speaker B:I know how much production goes into to these interviews and how much emphasis goes into the show, but I know you're a writer first and I know that you have projects.
Speaker B:When do you have time with all that's going on on to take care.
Speaker A:Of the temple and thank you for asking.
Speaker A:As you know, this cancer has.
Speaker A:The prostate cancer that I had.
Speaker A:The surgery was a success and then it was aggressive.
Speaker A:So it came back.
Speaker A:And then I went through radiation hormone.
Speaker A:And I was very cavalier at the beginning because I was like, man, I don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker A:Radiation, mediation, I mean, you know, hormone therapy, whatever.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:I kept hearing this word cumulative.
Speaker A:And I'm getting to your point.
Speaker A:The accumulative effect have really sucker punched me in these last couple months.
Speaker A:And I realized I was working so hard through summer by putting out an episode a week easy.
Speaker A:And it has really kicked me in the balls, to be honest with you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And Tammy just asked me two nights ago, she goes, when are you gonna pump the brakes?
Speaker A:She goes, I haven't seen you writing lately.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oops.
Speaker A:And she goes, you know, I used to see you disappear when we, when we met and I moved to New York City and we lived in midtown town.
Speaker A:I get up every day at 6:00.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We'd say goodbye to each other at 7:00.
Speaker A:She'd go to Dwell magazine and I would go down and pick a different coffee shop to write.
Speaker A:And for an entire year that's all I did.
Speaker A:And I realized how much I love that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So to your point, it is hard.
Speaker A:And I think part of what's going to happen here, like happening now is I'm backing off some more.
Speaker A:I just, I can't keep this level up right now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:For energy wise.
Speaker A:Plus I really miss writing.
Speaker A:And I've got, I've got this non fiction book on prostate cancer journey.
Speaker A:And then I've got this thriller that I have been noodling on in the back of my head.
Speaker A:That's a long way of saying I have to either get up at.
Speaker A:I'VE been getting up around 4 with the, well, we got a new puppy.
Speaker A:So somewhere between four and six.
Speaker A:I'll try to bang out some writing before I get prepared for the day because most of my interviews happen this 10, 11 o'clock.
Speaker A:But yeah, I'm, it's, it's been a challenge and it's, it's, I think it's going to back off just a little bit.
Speaker A:I just so love what I do and I love hanging out with guys like you and just talking about this stuff and this face to face, as you've heard me say before, is just, it doesn't get any better than.
Speaker B:No, it does not.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:And, and, and people will go, oh, but this is almost as good as zoom.
Speaker A:And I'm like, it's nowhere near zoom.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But, you know, and you know, the reason I love coming here and having this face to face is because, like, I do consider you a friend.
Speaker B:And just like, you know, a couple weeks ago when I was in town and we had brunch, I mean, that's, that's the important part.
Speaker B:I, I, we can keep talking this stuff whether we have a camera on us or not, you know, and it'd be really cool to one day sit down and tell me about your book.
Speaker B:Tell me about the one that's coming out.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, well, and you know, I realized Tammy asked me this too.
Speaker A:She goes, you know, do your listeners know of any of your books?
Speaker A:I'm like, you know, I don't know, I'm like, where?
Speaker A:I have really dropped the ball.
Speaker A:And Ryan Stack and I were talking about this the other day because he was, he said, you know, we were both commiserating about the fact that we drive this machine so much that people don't even know that we write.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I said, yeah, I need to get back to that and talk about my books.
Speaker A:Wait a minute, we're getting, we're getting interrupted by my beautiful wife.
Speaker A:So, you know, we're, which.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:She's coming in for the hug.
Speaker B:How you doing?
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm doing great.
Speaker A:So good to see you.
Speaker A:Good to see you.
Speaker A:You guys having fun?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we're having a great time.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're writing about not writing it off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes, I am aligned with you on that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's so nice to see you.
Speaker A:Come down.
Speaker A:We were just talking about you.
Speaker A:I just had to see you.
Speaker A:I didn't want to miss you.
Speaker A:And I hope everything's going great.
Speaker A:David's keeping me in the loop.
Speaker B:On you.
Speaker A:Hi, darling.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:I love you.
Speaker A:I love you.
Speaker A:All right, you guys have fun.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Good seeing you.
Speaker A:So glad you came by.
Speaker A:There walks my voice of reason because.
Speaker B:We all need them.
Speaker A:She said to me.
Speaker A:She has said to me a number of times, she goes, you know, that is when we very first met.
Speaker A:And this is.
Speaker A:This is a perfect point for this.
Speaker A:I just moved to Manhattan.
Speaker A:And she said, let me ask you something, honey.
Speaker A:If you could take just this next year and do anything in the world.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm like, write a book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's when I sat down and wrote a book.
Speaker A:That's the first time I'd committed an entire year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To do nothing.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And when you have that freedom.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that there are a lot of people.
Speaker B:I talk to a lot of people in my profession, and there's a lot of people who, oh, I was wanting to write a book one day, or, you know, and that was me right at one point.
Speaker B:That was me saying, one day, I'll write a book.
Speaker B:Yeah, one day I'll write a book.
Speaker B:And it really just takes a.
Speaker B:A commitment to say, today's that day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the other thing that we were talking about, stuff that's daunting for me.
Speaker B:Writing a book was daunting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it was, how am I going to finish this book?
Speaker B:And to some degree, every book I write, when I first start on word one, page one, it's like, here we go.
Speaker B:I hope I can reach the end.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:And then, of course, you get into the story and it starts to flow naturally.
Speaker B:And the minute you finish one book, you realize it's really not that daunting.
Speaker B:It's really.
Speaker B:There's a process.
Speaker B:But the one thing I want to say to people that have always wanted to write a book is take the time to do it.
Speaker B:But don't be your own worst enemy.
Speaker B:Don't stand in your own way.
Speaker B:I think so many people, it has to be perfect, and they keep going back and they keep revising and they keep editing it, and it can always be improved.
Speaker B:Every single book can always be improved.
Speaker B:You have to at some point and say, this is it.
Speaker B:I'm done.
Speaker B:I'm going to put it out there and see if people like it and you learn from it, then move on to something else.
Speaker B:But you see a lot of people that will have that one good idea, that one good book that they'll work on, and they'll keep tweaking it over and over and over again and not having a success with it.
Speaker B:And those are the ones that ultimately don't become successful authors.
Speaker A:That analysis paralysis.
Speaker A:I have so many friends.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh, they would write a book, then they would rewrite it, and then they, like, give it to friends.
Speaker A:Friends.
Speaker A:And the friends would give notes and they would rewrite it again.
Speaker A:And I have this one friend who I will not mention, he has rewritten this book so many times, I'm like, dude, just let it go.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:There's plenty more ideas out there.
Speaker B:And if you only have one idea, maybe a profession of being a writer is not for you, and that's okay.
Speaker B:And maybe just be okay with the fact that you should.
Speaker B:You've accomplished something that not many people have.
Speaker B:You finished a book, right?
Speaker A:Well, you know, it's funny.
Speaker A:I always close every show with your best writing advice, and I think that's what you just gave.
Speaker B:There it is.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:Jack Stewart books.com if you want to learn more.
Speaker A:And of course, Bogey Spades is the latest battleborn thriller.
Speaker A:And as always, it's a pleasure, my friend.
Speaker A:Pleasure is mine.
