Robbie Bach: The Man Who Built Xbox and Now Thrills Us with Blockchain
Get ready to dive into the exhilarating world of thrillers as Thriller Zone host Dave Temple chats with the brilliant Robbie Bach, the mastermind behind not just Xbox, but also a gripping new novel titled *The Blockchain Syndicate*.
Right off the bat with Episode #242, we’re unraveling the layers of intrigue, murder, and the high-stakes game of technology weaponized against democracy. Robbie’s journey from leading a gaming revolution to penning edge-of-your-seat narratives is nothing short of inspiring.
We’ll explore how real-world issues influence his writing, like the complex dynamics of crime syndicates that might just parallel some of the shady dealings he’s witnessed in boardrooms.
With David at the helm, listeners are treated to a light-hearted yet insightful discussion that ranges from the intricacies of the gaming industry to the dark, thrilling narrative that blends technology and crime.
With plenty of playful banter and humorous anecdotes, this episode is a delightful mix of entertainment and deep exploration of themes that matter in today’s digital age.
So, grab your headphones and buckle up, because this episode promises a rollercoaster of fun, insight, and a few laughs along the way!
Takeaways:
- This episode features Robbie Bach, the mastermind behind Xbox, who now writes thrilling novels.
- We dive into Robbie's transition from tech innovator to thriller novelist, exploring the creative process.
- The conversation touches on the role of technology in our lives and how it can be weaponized.
- Robbie discusses the importance of character depth, using his villain to explore complex motivations.
- Listeners learn about the intertwining of technology and storytelling in Robbie's latest book, 'The Blockchain Syndicate'.
- The episode emphasizes the need for writers to just start writing and embrace the creative chaos.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Xbox
- Microsoft
- Greenleaf Book Group Press
KEYWORDS: thriller podcast, Robbie Bach interview, blockchain technology, Xbox history, writing thrillers, political thrillers, character development in novels, technology in fiction, creative writing tips, suspenseful storytelling, authors and technology, AI in writing, impact of technology on society, contemporary thriller novels, book marketing strategies, Seattle authors, social media and privacy, writing process insights, narrative authenticity, best-selling thrillers
Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:I'm your host, David Temple.
Speaker A:So glad you have joined us today.
Speaker A:And today we've got a very special guest.
Speaker A:Now, this guy.
Speaker A:This is his second novel, and when you read it, you're not going to believe it.
Speaker A:You're going to like.
Speaker A:Now, this cat's been writing for years.
Speaker A:No, he's been doing other things for years.
Speaker A:Mainly one of the chief operating brainiacs behind a little thing called the Xbox.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Today we're talking to Robbie Bach, former Xbox employee mastermind, and now the mastermind behind the blockchain syndicate.
Speaker A:Oh, baby.
Speaker A:If you like intrigue, assassinations, murder and mayhem.
Speaker A:Well, Dave, it's the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:That's what we come here for then.
Speaker A:You're gonna like this book, folks.
Speaker A:Put your hands together, unless you're driving, of course, for Robbie Bach, right here on the Thriller zone.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what happened to your shoulder?
Speaker A:Is it raining outside?
Speaker B:I ran through some bushes, but yes, that's why I was trying to brush this off, because I ran through.
Speaker B:I had to go upstairs to get my headphones because I forgot them and they're.
Speaker B:The gate has some bushes next to it, so I. I hit the bushes.
Speaker B:So anyway, that'll.
Speaker B:Hopefully that'll dry off in the meantime.
Speaker A:All good.
Speaker A:Well, I am very glad that you're here.
Speaker A:It's so funny.
Speaker A:I always make all my notes.
Speaker A:And then this morning over breakfast, I. I started scribbling more notes.
Speaker A:It just kind of came to me.
Speaker A:So if I'm a little all over the place, bear with me.
Speaker A:But that's kind of the fun and the magic of this show.
Speaker B:Totally, totally happy.
Speaker B:Happy to go wherever you want to go.
Speaker B:You direct, and I will.
Speaker B:I will follow.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:So much power in my hand.
Speaker B:Now It's a Monday.
Speaker B:It's a Monday.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where do I find you today?
Speaker B:I'm in Seattle.
Speaker B:Just outside of Seattle.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Thus the rain.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:Yeah, it poured here yesterday.
Speaker B:It rained a little this morning.
Speaker B:You know, now we got clouds.
Speaker B:Then it'll have a little sun, then it'll rain again.
Speaker A:Seattle, is it true that it does nearly always rain, or is that just kind of.
Speaker A:Is that the.
Speaker B:No, that's.
Speaker B:That's just people in Seattle trying to keep the Californians out of here.
Speaker A:That's exactly what I was gonna say.
Speaker B:We get.
Speaker B:We get probably less rain in inches than significant parts of the country because we don't get thunderstorms, we don't get heavy rain.
Speaker B:The problem is we get a lot of days Overcast with occasional drizzle.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I haven't used an umbrella in 20 years.
Speaker A:Oh, see, isn't that funny because you.
Speaker A:Yeah, they have fed the machine to keep us from coming and ruining everything.
Speaker B:The thing they tell people who move here is it's all about the gear.
Speaker B:So do you have the right shoes?
Speaker B:Do you have the right coat with a hood?
Speaker B:And do you have a four wheel drive car?
Speaker B:If you got all those things, you're great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, they say here you need sunblock and a surfboard.
Speaker B:It's pretty much.
Speaker B:Wow, that works.
Speaker B:That works.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, today we're talking about the Blockchain Syndicate, Robbie Bach, of course, our guest, and this.
Speaker A:Love the COVID by the way.
Speaker A:I don't know who did this.
Speaker B:Right, yeah.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:Everybody who listens to the show knows I love covers.
Speaker A:I have so much to talk about and I know we got like 30ish minutes, but I'm going to cram as much as I can.
Speaker A:What some of my guest listeners do not know is that you're kind of, I'm sure you're not the actual brainchild, but you are one of the, can we say, insurmountable forces behind a little thing called the Xbox.
Speaker B:Yeah, the way to think about that is I was the leader of the group.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:So my, my title was, this is the title we made up.
Speaker B:My title was Chief Xbox Officer.
Speaker B:So I was the leader of the group.
Speaker B:I'm not a, I'm a product person, but not a deep, technical person.
Speaker B:So the people who created Xbox Live, that'd be a guy named Jay Allard.
Speaker B:The people who created the console hardware, that'd be a guy named Todd Holmdahl.
Speaker B:The guy who bought Halo, that'd be a guy named Ed Fries.
Speaker B:And I kept those guys together as.
Speaker A:A group, which was probably quite a challenge in and of itself because you're talking about right brain, left brain, circling of cats, right?
Speaker B:Well, yeah, and, and I always tell people, the Xbox team, in my 22 years at Microsoft, that original Xbox team was by far the most talented, individually incredibly talented people.
Speaker B:Getting them to work together as a team was, Was no easy feat.
Speaker B:And I didn't do a great job of it.
Speaker B:It took me probably three or four years to sort of figure out how to get everybody to sort of work together.
Speaker B:And the second version of Xbox, Xbox360, that team was really humming and yeah, that was a lot of fun.
Speaker A:Fun little note.
Speaker A:Everyone on the show who listens to the show knows my wife Tammy, who is behind that door right now on a conference call with a bunch of big wigs.
Speaker A:Otherwise she would be in here beaming about this very thing.
Speaker A:So we're coming back from the gym this morning, it's probably about 6:45, 7 o'.
Speaker A:Clock.
Speaker A:And she goes, who's on your podcast today?
Speaker A:I said, well, little fella who has written a very, very tasty novel, number two, to be exact.
Speaker A:And, but here's something.
Speaker A:He's behind one of the something that you, you might know a little something about.
Speaker A:And, and she's just deadpan like this.
Speaker A:She goes, really?
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker A:I said xbox.
Speaker B:She goes, oh.
Speaker A:And she just lit up.
Speaker A:She goes, well, tell Mr. Bach I'm he pro.
Speaker A:Something like.
Speaker A:He probably built his second home on the amount of money I spent on Jake, our son.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, the funny thing is I do a lot of public speaking.
Speaker B:So I'll go around and, you know, a mom or a dad will come up and say, can I take a selfie with you?
Speaker B:Not because they want the selfie, but because they want cred with their kids.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so they, they want me to say I met the guy who helped start Xbox.
Speaker B:And then that gives them somehow cultural credibility.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And to that very same point, I'm gonna get you to say a little shout out to Jake, because Jake is who we were mentioning before and he's.
Speaker A:I don't know if he's ever, ever even listened to my podcast.
Speaker A:Finds out that you're on, he'll go, oh, maybe, yeah, I think I'll listen to that episode.
Speaker B:Hey, Jake, I, I hope you're enjoying your Xbox.
Speaker B:Have fun with it and play when your parents aren't looking.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Well, this.
Speaker A:I want to, I want to get into the blockchain syndicate.
Speaker A:Another thing I love about it is the title.
Speaker A:And that title does a couple of things.
Speaker A:So we, we've now established the fact that you built one of the most, you know, successful entertainment platforms probably in the history of mankind.
Speaker A:But now that you're writing thrillers about technology weaponizing against democracy, it makes me wonder, what has that trans transition been like?
Speaker A:Because I'm, I'm thinking I don't.
Speaker A:And you have two different websites, which we'll talk about in a second.
Speaker A:I see your corporate, you know, speaker, champion for causes and so forth, and I think, what is it like to go from that world after 22 plus years and go, you know what?
Speaker A:Now I'm going to go solo.
Speaker A:We all know what that's like.
Speaker A:Now you're, now you're inside Your mind, you're inside your own little world.
Speaker A:Probably spending anywhere from a year to a year and a half, two years crafting this thing.
Speaker A:What has that transition been like?
Speaker B:Well, I think the good news is I have a little bit of balance because I spend almost half my time working with nonprofit boards, which is an intensely social activity.
Speaker B:You end up in meetings.
Speaker B:I've met some just amazing people.
Speaker B:Boys and Girls Comes America Habitat for Humanity, Bipartisan Policy Center.
Speaker B:So they're great boards and they're wonderful people.
Speaker B:So that's my social side.
Speaker B:And you're right.
Speaker B:When I'm writing, it's me and my almost 14 year old lab and that's it.
Speaker B:And some music in the background.
Speaker B:And so I have sort of a yin and yang about that.
Speaker B:I, I was, I've become pretty comfortable being by myself, but I need the balance of being with other people.
Speaker B:And those board work is how I replaced all that social time for Microsoft.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That makes total sense because, you know, on a, on a similar note, I was on radio shows my entire career, so.
Speaker A:And I had a team around in the room with me.
Speaker A:So it's about 10 people and you're constantly in an entourage and then you switch to writing books and it's just you and you're lonesome.
Speaker A:And it can be, for some people it's, it can be a little disconcerting because all of a sudden you feel lonely.
Speaker A:Loneliness can lead to a little bit of, you know, myopia, you know, self reflection, depression, et cetera.
Speaker A:But I'm with you.
Speaker A:That's why I love to get out and just be around people to kind of counterbalance that thing.
Speaker B:I also think that myopian loneliness leads to writer's block too.
Speaker B:And one of the things, one of the things I'm actually, you know, fortunate is I have not had a circumstance when I'm in writing where I just kind of say I don't know what to write next.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think part of that's because I'm, I'm only writing about half the time and I've got all these other things that are keeping my brain engaged and generating new ideas and those kinds of things.
Speaker B:So I think having a balance is actually really nice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, you, you've mastered it certainly here.
Speaker A:It's fascinating watching someone who has gone from that world and I, and you draw on some rather dark aspects.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:That many of us don't think about.
Speaker A:And, and I, I wonder if people have approached you and said, robbie, how much of this is real?
Speaker A:Because we we get this a lot.
Speaker A:Are you making this up?
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Are we in that kind of a mess?
Speaker B:Well, I'm not making it up.
Speaker B:Technology.
Speaker B:One of the things I value in my writing is authenticity.
Speaker B:Both authenticity about the characters and authenticity about what's going on in the world.
Speaker B:So there isn't anything in here that's just like, pulled out of the blue technically, or.
Speaker B:Oh, that's not possible or whatever.
Speaker B:The thing I try to reinforce with people is technology is just a thing.
Speaker B:Technology itself is not good or bad.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And almost every technology ever created has been used for good, and it's been used for bad.
Speaker B:And so you.
Speaker B:You have to think about that as you look at things.
Speaker B:I think about social media.
Speaker B:There's a lot of good things about social media.
Speaker B:There's a lot of downsides on social media.
Speaker B:I think about, you know, blockchain, which is the subject of this book.
Speaker B:I think about AI, which is partially in this book and, you know, partially something that's, you know, coming down the tracks pretty fast at us.
Speaker B:Those are.
Speaker B:They're just technologies.
Speaker B:I mean, it's like, oh, somebody invented the semiconductor.
Speaker B:Was that good or bad?
Speaker B:No, that was just an invention.
Speaker B:And by the way, it's been used for good things and for bad things.
Speaker B:And so what I try to explore is that good and bad, and it's the classic good versus evil that makes thriller novels come to life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I met, and I cannot recall his name.
Speaker A:I was on a movie set.
Speaker A:I was doing a small movie in the mountains of Virginia a few years back, and I met the guy who created the technology that took the phone from the big case that we used to carry down to the miniaturization.
Speaker A:And I asked him this similar question about, you know, how, you know, look.
Speaker A:Look at how technology has changed over the years.
Speaker A:And he goes, well, there's a lot of good that comes out of that technology.
Speaker A:And, you know, people lose bad.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And I couldn't help but think about the fact that, well, kind of like.
Speaker A:Kind of like these little machines right here that never seem to leave our side.
Speaker A:You know, we're either completely addicted to them and they're gathering all this information from us, or we're just doing something called, oh, making a phone call.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:No, and look, and phones, everybody, you know, loves their phone.
Speaker B:They're attached to their phone.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of good that does come from that.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:But phones are now a communication vehicle for bad people.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's just.
Speaker B:That's just a fact.
Speaker B:And the Technology is so ubiquitous and there's so many different ways to use it.
Speaker B:Then you add GPS and a few other things and, you know, facial recognition and other stuff that all comes from some of the phone technology.
Speaker B:And, you know, you have a tool, and the tool can be used for good or for bad.
Speaker A:Well, you.
Speaker A:You touched on something just a second ago that I wanted to make sure I asked you about because it's so prevalent.
Speaker A:And ask my wife and she'll tell you.
Speaker A:Yeah, you only talk about it, Dave, like, every single day.
Speaker A:But AI, sure.
Speaker A:Do you find yourself worried about that again, using the good, bad?
Speaker A:And do you see yourself potentially writing about it in the future?
Speaker A:Because when I'm reading Blockchain, I'm thinking, boy, this cat's got it dialed in for anything.
Speaker A:He wants to go down the AI path.
Speaker B:Yeah, look, blockchain, the thing that's different about AI from Blockchain.
Speaker B:Blockchain is a really cool technology.
Speaker B:It's very interesting.
Speaker B:It is not a generational shift in how people work and compute.
Speaker B:AI is a generational shift.
Speaker B:It's like the move from mainframe computers to PCs, that was a generational shift.
Speaker B:It's like the move from DOS to graphical user interface in Windows, that was a generational shift.
Speaker B:Social media was a generational shift.
Speaker B:AI is a generational shift.
Speaker B:And so it's going to change almost everything we experience and do.
Speaker B:And I am not a. I'm a believer that there's a bunch of things AI will do.
Speaker B:I think about medicine.
Speaker B:It has the potential to make our healthcare system dramatically better.
Speaker B:Not because we're going to replace doctors, because we're not.
Speaker B:But if you're a doctor and you're trying to understand somebody's condition and you have the ability to describe that condition and get some guideposts from an AI agent who can.
Speaker B:Who has collected data from around the world, that's powerful.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And at the same time, AI can be used to fake an ad, fake an action, create a character that didn't exist, create a digital twin for somebody and make it look like they're someplace else.
Speaker B:There's really bad things that could come from it.
Speaker B:It's rich fodder.
Speaker B:Look, if you're a thriller writer, it's rich fodder.
Speaker B:No debate.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And don't think I'm not using it to its absolute fullest opportunity in my current book that I'm working on right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so I'll tell you so in this book, I didn't use in Blockchain.
Speaker B:Syndicate.
Speaker B:I didn't use AI to write a single word, so the book is all mine.
Speaker B:I did use it dramatically in marketing.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah?
Speaker B:How do you do a summary of the book?
Speaker B:I literally gave AI the book and said, tell me how to summarize this.
Speaker B:There's a video trailer on my website, the blockchain syndicate.com as a trailer for the movie.
Speaker B:The script and the video for that trailer was all done in AI.
Speaker C:They say the dead don't send emails, but there it was in my inbox.
Speaker C:A message from someone I watched die.
Speaker C:Someone who knew secrets that could destroy everything I've built.
Speaker C:I'm Senator Tamika Smith, ex Air Force.
Speaker C:I've served my country in war zones and Washington.
Speaker C:I thought I'd seen every kind of enemy.
Speaker C:I was wrong.
Speaker C:When they took Johnny, kidnapped him in broad daylight after his daughter was shot, I knew this wasn't random.
Speaker C:Someone wanted me broken.
Speaker C:Someone wanted America broken.
Speaker C:The FBI calls it sophisticated professional.
Speaker C:A shadow network using blockchain technology to hide in plain sight.
Speaker C:But I've learned something about shadows.
Speaker C:They only exist where there's light to cast them.
Speaker C:They're threatening democracy itself, using our own technology against us, turning our digital infrastructure into a weapon.
Speaker C:But I didn't survive combat missions to surrender to cowards hiding behind computer screens.
Speaker C:They want to fix America their way.
Speaker C:They'll have to go through me first.
Speaker C:Some fights choose you.
Speaker C:This one chose wrong.
Speaker C:The Blockchain Syndicate.
Speaker C:When the ledger finally balances, justice will be the only currency that matters.
Speaker B:And, you know, it cost me $300.
Speaker B:I mean, it was great, right?
Speaker B:It was awesome.
Speaker B:So there are ways to use it that I think are really responsible and supportive, but the core creative work has come for me.
Speaker A:Well, and let's.
Speaker A:Let's break that down for a second, because core creative is nuance.
Speaker A:It's emotion, it's empathy.
Speaker A:It's so many of the tiny little things.
Speaker A:And yes, I know AI is getting smarter by.
Speaker A:Not the day, the minute, but still, there's a matter of reasoning and emotion, maybe intellect, heart, things like that.
Speaker A:So I'm with you.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:So many of the red threads in the Blockchain Syndicate are.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a bunch of them that are about the core plot of the book, obviously.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But a bunch of the red threads are about the characters themselves.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And emotion.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I. I have to come up with that.
Speaker B:That has to come from me.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And back to your point.
Speaker A:It is hard not to use something.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And, folks, hear me out here on this, because Robbie just said this.
Speaker A:The amount it really comes down to, let's be honest, it's about the amount of time and money that you can save.
Speaker A:Now, do I feel badly that I'm putting a copywriter out of business?
Speaker A:No, because.
Speaker A:Oh, that's right.
Speaker A:I'm a novel writer, so I'm writing the copy myself.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to make.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm just trying to make it better, more polished, faster, more easily digestible, whatever the word is.
Speaker A:And it's really about expediency.
Speaker A:And to your second point is when you can make a TV commercial slash trailer for $300 versus 3,000 or 30,000, it kind of begs the question, wouldn't it make more sense to put that money into marketing things that really are tangible than otherwise?
Speaker B:No, that's exactly right.
Speaker B:And that's sort of the way I viewed it.
Speaker B:And the other thing I will say, I think you have a responsibility to tell people when something's been AI generated.
Speaker B:So, like my video is, it says created using the following AI tool.
Speaker B:And I think that's a, it's kind of like footnoting a piece of work, and I think that's valuable.
Speaker A:And I don't think anybody's going to fault you for that.
Speaker A:I mean, who in the wide world of Xbox would fault you for taking the time to save time and money when you're saying, hey, by the way, this created by me, that created by some force out there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, we've, we've kicked that one.
Speaker A:So it's nice to see Senator Tamika Smith back now.
Speaker A:We met her first in the Wilkes Insurrection, which came out, I want to say, 21.
Speaker B:Yep, good memory.
Speaker A:All right, so four, four years, which I'm hoping that we don't have to wait another four years for the next one, because when you dive into this, when you go, robbie, please, for the love of God, don't make me wait for years.
Speaker B:Well, that's.
Speaker B:I, I, I hope not to wait that wait.
Speaker B:I hope not to wait that long.
Speaker B:I have some ideas already.
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I, I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker A:I was going to say, David, are you kidding me?
Speaker A:It's, it's right over there in the box.
Speaker A:I, I finished it last night.
Speaker A:Well, I don't want to spoil anything, but how does she, Senator Tamika, how does she evolve, grow, mature between Wilkes Insurrection and now Blockchain Syndicate?
Speaker B:Well, I think in Wilkes Insurrection, her motivation is more about what I would call military duty.
Speaker B:You know, that book starts with her still serving as A reservist in the military.
Speaker B:And so she has this patriotism and sense of duty that comes from her family background, her family experience.
Speaker B:And she's living that out in what she does in Blockchain Syndicate.
Speaker B:She's made this transition to being in the U.S. senate, and now there's a focus on democracy, governance, how we lead people.
Speaker B:And so there's still that same internal drive and focus on doing the right thing, but it comes from a slightly different sensibility.
Speaker B:And she's engaged in a completely different set of activities.
Speaker B:And in Wilkes instruction, she's wrestling with a terrorist in blockstling with both politicians and others.
Speaker B:And it's just a different.
Speaker B:It's a different environment for her.
Speaker B:And so she has to learn her way through that.
Speaker A:And I'll be honest, the reason I asked that question is because I did not read your first book.
Speaker A:I apologize right out of the gate.
Speaker A:I should have read every single solitary thing I get my hands on, but yet I didn't.
Speaker A:Now, this book opens with a school shooting.
Speaker A:That's not what it seems.
Speaker A:And again, I don't want to spoil it, but it is a hell of a way to start.
Speaker A:And it begged the question.
Speaker A:As I'm sitting there reading, I'm like, I wonder how Robbie felt.
Speaker A:Was he a little bit nervous about using school violence as a plot device, given where it is in our world today?
Speaker B:It's an excellent question.
Speaker B:And here's what I would say.
Speaker B:I. I think about my books as a reflection of contemporary society.
Speaker B:So when there are things that are real happening.
Speaker B:I mean, in Wilkes Insurrection, there's an attack, multiple attacks, lots of people die.
Speaker B:And do I feel bad about that?
Speaker B:I mean, I feel for the people, even though they're fictional.
Speaker B:I feel for them, sure.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:You know, unfortunately, this is where we are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:School shootings.
Speaker B:I mean, every child in.
Speaker B:In an American school knows what the protocol is if there's an active shooter on campus.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that may be sad, we may not like that, but it's the reality of what's going on, and we just have to deal with that.
Speaker B:And so I don't.
Speaker B:I don't feel like I should shy away from those types of things.
Speaker B:I think that's an important thing to just take on head on and deal with it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you said the word that was coming out of my mind just the minute you said it was.
Speaker A:How sad it is that we have this mirror that we have to hold up to ourselves as we see the way society has gone.
Speaker A:Oh, it's Almost like, oh, what's that, honey?
Speaker A:Oh, another school shooting.
Speaker A:Oh, it's terrible.
Speaker B:Well, and this is why you have to write about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because you have to force people to, you know, hopefully over time people have a connection to the characters in my books.
Speaker B:And if you have a connection to Phoenix Humboldt or Tamika Smith or Bryce Raskovich, all important characters in the story, that shooting is an emotional event for you.
Speaker B:It's not just something that happened on the news someplace.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, we have to bring these things into our conscience, into our, the part of our morality and our soul that deals with them.
Speaker B:And the only way to do that is to confront them.
Speaker B:And you can't, you can't skirt around that.
Speaker A:This is, this show is all about you.
Speaker A:But I'm going to mention another author because when I was reading this book, I thought, oh, Robbie has got to read this book.
Speaker A:And I don't generally do this.
Speaker A:I don't recommend other authors to the authors I'm talking to because I don't want to, I don't want to steal your thunder.
Speaker A:But the reason I do this is a similarity and a powerful story, but even more so because of what you just said.
Speaker A:We have to write books like this.
Speaker A:And it's a book by Eric Rickstead called Lilith L I L I T H. This is probably one of the most emotionally riveting books and I'm not going to tell you a single thing about it, but just trust me and pick it up.
Speaker B:I just, I, I just put it on my list.
Speaker B:I, look, I write in the thriller genre for sure and I write techno thrillers.
Speaker B:I think the best part, the parts of my books that I love the most are the character driven themes and plot lines that flow through it.
Speaker B:Well, and, and so for me, the main plot line is super interesting, super exciting, super meaningful.
Speaker B:And I have to use that to create my, the thriller environment.
Speaker B:But I love Tamika's story, I love Bryce's story, I love Phoenix Humboldt story.
Speaker B:They're important.
Speaker A:Well, and I want to, I want to bounce.
Speaker A:I'm going to bounce back and forth a little.
Speaker A:Couple more things between your Microsoft years, your board work with the Olympic committee, civic involvement, which you do a lot of, and other businesses, you're involved in one of them.
Speaker A:I have a note here that I want to make sure I do not forget because it lit me up this morning.
Speaker A:I'm gonna, I'm gonna come back to that.
Speaker A:But you've seen how power actually operates behind closed doors.
Speaker A:So how much of Rally America and Break down for me, for my listeners, what Rally America is and how much of that Rally America conspiracy mirrors real dynamics that you've witnessed in boardrooms and policy circles that you've been in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So think of Rally America in the non digital world.
Speaker B:Rally America is a crime syndicate and there's a syndicate boss.
Speaker B:Now, what's unique about Rally America in this book is nobody who's in the syndicate knows anybody else in the syndicate because of blockchain.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And nobody knows who the leader is, which is why the leader set it up that way.
Speaker B:And so there's this sort of analog part of the story that is, oh, this is a mafia syndicate, I get that, but it's not a mafia syndicate.
Speaker B:Nobody knows who the don is.
Speaker B:There's no family.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And the FBI and the authorities chasing after it can't treat it like a mafia syndicate.
Speaker B:So that, to me is the magic of Rally America and why it plays kind of a pivotal role in the book and the direction it goes.
Speaker B:You know, do I think that is going on in the world today?
Speaker B: have been going on since the: Speaker B:So yeah.
Speaker B:So I don't think, unfortunately, I don't think that part of human nature has changed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Are they going working exactly the way Rally America works?
Speaker B:Using blockchain to hide their identities?
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:It's not like I wrote about one I knew about, but the technology's there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, it's not, it's not, it's not magic.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's actually real.
Speaker A:Now, I want to.
Speaker A:I want you to talk to me about this female Russian assassin that you have hunting throughout the story.
Speaker A:Talk to me about her.
Speaker A:And, and how, how do you make someone so ruthless, so cunning and ruthless, but yet also compelling that readers just going to hang on every little aspect of it?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Nazian Drop off is an interesting character.
Speaker B:And, you know, as I was writing, I had the idea that there would be somebody who would do the shooting at school.
Speaker B:I didn't have the idea that that character would then become a main character.
Speaker B:And then I did what I do with all characters.
Speaker B:I wrote a little backstory and then I started writing the backstory and she starts to become real.
Speaker B:And now you start to realize, okay, this is a woman who's motivated by something and her motivation is about Russia.
Speaker B:This isn't giving anything away.
Speaker B:People will find this out in the book pretty quickly.
Speaker B:She's motivated about Mother Russia because of her family history and her family background.
Speaker B:And so now you start to put that together and then you plop her in my favorite country in the world, the Netherlands, which is a really nice, sweet place.
Speaker B:So she has to be nice and sweet because she's hiding in plain sight.
Speaker B:And so you have this.
Speaker B:Now she becomes three dimensional for me and she's not just a one dimensional or two dimensional sort of stock villain now.
Speaker B:She's a human and she has these characteristics and she talks with her cat and she has fears and anxieties and, and yet she is determined and ruthless at what she does.
Speaker B:So she's a great foil for Tamika.
Speaker B:And that's, that's the, the logic of the, of the story.
Speaker A:Two things there.
Speaker A:I was going to say, reason I loved her so much was it was a great polar opposite of your main protagonist, which of course you want.
Speaker A:But the other thing was, and you took the words right out of my mouth, I'm like, she wasn't, you know, she wasn't a cardboard cutout, standard little ruthless killer, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:There was this character, and I talked to my wife about this all the time about why we're so attracted to certain shows and, or characters inside of shows.
Speaker A:Like we just wrapped this series called Task.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Which I won't.
Speaker A:Okay, you know what it is?
Speaker A:I'm not going to bore my listeners with it, but the, the, the reason I think it was so successful, besides it was great acting and a good story.
Speaker A:But it was the fact that in all this brokenness and murder and mayhem and, and, and stolen drugs and money and all that stuff, it was the characters that she cared about and the heart that wove the story together.
Speaker A:I would never have.
Speaker A:Matter of fact, I was late to the game.
Speaker A:She started it first.
Speaker A:I saw her keep watching.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, I gotta, I gotta dive out.
Speaker A:Because I'd walk through the room and I saw.
Speaker A:What's this?
Speaker A:Oh yeah, water.
Speaker A:It's another one of those shows.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then I, by about the third, second or third episode, I'm like, holy, this thing is dynamite.
Speaker A:And then by the wrap, when you're sitting there almost crying, these biker gangs and, and the story that unfolds characters is what I'm getting at.
Speaker A:Sorry, I'm going off the beaten path.
Speaker A:But characters in the heart, which is what you did here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, look, I'm a huge fan of ncis.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, there's great storylines, really good writing, some incredible acting.
Speaker B:But for me, the heart of that story obviously is Jethro Gibbs.
Speaker B:And in part because his life background is so fascinating and there's so many Dimensions to him as a character and who he is.
Speaker B:And he's crotchety, but he has heart.
Speaker B:He's a soldier, but, you know, he's compassionate.
Speaker B:You know, the story works because the plotting is great and the acting is quite good.
Speaker B:But to me, it works because his character comes to life.
Speaker B:And I think with him leaving the show, it's been harder because, you know, you don't feel that connection to his character as much.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, we start to wrap up.
Speaker A:You left some threads hanging potentially for some more books.
Speaker A:I'm just going to say, folks, I'm.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I'm not spoiling anything here, but Tamika feels like it's just.
Speaker A:It's just my opinion here, buddy.
Speaker A:Feels like a little bit of Robbie's Jack Reacher, because I think I see where we have yet another conspiracy.
Speaker A:As though she didn't have enough on her plate already.
Speaker A:I know that you gotta be.
Speaker A:And we mentioned it earlier, but come on, give me some inside scoop.
Speaker B:Well, the.
Speaker B:The thing to.
Speaker B:The thing to focus on when you're writing, when you start to decide that you're going to write a series.
Speaker B:So now you have threads within the story.
Speaker B:So threads within, in this case, a book, but now you have to have threads that go across books as well.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And so there clearly are some threads for her and for a couple other characters in the story.
Speaker B:Bryce Raskovich has some threads that run across books.
Speaker B:In this story, Jerry Jessup's not done.
Speaker B:He has a thread.
Speaker B:Threads that run across this.
Speaker B:So there are characters that run across this that I think the way I say it is this.
Speaker B:I'm their curator for their story, and they have more to tell.
Speaker B:And I think of myself as their.
Speaker B:As the person who brings them to life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, let me ask you about Greenleaf Book Group Press.
Speaker A:I had not heard of them before.
Speaker A:This is the publishing group, I'm assuming.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Is this Seattle?
Speaker A:I'm just curious.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:They're based in Texas.
Speaker B:Greenleaf's what's called a hybrid publisher.
Speaker B:So in a traditional publishing model, they buy your book or you self publish, which is you subcontract everything.
Speaker B:Greenleaf is that beautiful thing in between where they don't buy my book, but I contract with them to do all the work.
Speaker B:And so they're a mainline publisher.
Speaker B:They do everything a publisher does.
Speaker B:They do editorial, they do copyright.
Speaker B:They do all the things they do.
Speaker B:They did that beautiful cover.
Speaker B:They do all the distribution and everything.
Speaker B:I still own the book.
Speaker B:And so it's a.
Speaker B:It's a nice mix of of professional publishing.
Speaker B:And they're really good.
Speaker B:They've done both my fiction novels and they're, they're spectacular.
Speaker B:And yet there's work I have to do because I'm the owner of the intellectual property.
Speaker A:Well, a little inside scoop, RB is the fact that you go to any traditional house right now, and this is so funny, I'm talking to my friends who have just landed deals and they turn to me.
Speaker A:I'm a self published guy, by the way.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And they turn to me and they go, you know, Dave, I was kind of expecting me to just walk in and go, you know, somebody signed me a great big fat check and me go write the next book.
Speaker A:And someone says, and hey, you guys got this right?
Speaker A:Because I got another book to write.
Speaker A:And then like, no, booby, you gotta go out there and hammer the streets yourself.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker B:And you know, the public, the publicity and all the work you do, no matter who you sign with, you have to do it yourself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so for me, the intellectual freedom.
Speaker B:And I get to decide the title of the book, I get to pick the COVID They're wonderful about presenting options and I get to make those decisions.
Speaker B:And that to me has been left me with some creative freedom, which I really enjoy.
Speaker A:Well, call me crazy, and you just laid this on me right now, so I haven't really had a time to digest it, but it sounds like I'm going to call it Best of All Worlds.
Speaker B:Well, here's the only, here's the only challenge.
Speaker B:You pay them up front.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, you know, this is the, this is the slight advantage of 22 years at Microsoft.
Speaker B:During, during really good years.
Speaker B:You have to put up, you have to put up your own capital to make it happen.
Speaker B:Now if you're doing self publishing, you do as well.
Speaker B:So that's not completely different from that.
Speaker B:But I just love the idea that I have seasoned professionals doing the work and the idea that there's one person who is making sure everything stays on track.
Speaker B:Here's the other secret.
Speaker B:From the time they first read the book to tomorrow's publishing date is nine months.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:Now that's an anomaly, am I right?
Speaker A:I mean, we're talking, I hear, I hear two, two years to two and a half, kind of as the sweet.
Speaker B:Spot, which, well, a traditional publisher has a list of books they're going to publish and they have a schedule.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so they can only release certain books at certain times.
Speaker B:Greenleaf doesn't have that.
Speaker B:And so they, in fact, in their case, the faster the Better.
Speaker B:So they basically said, look, if you want to launch before the holiday, here's your schedule.
Speaker B:You're going to have to do editing with us on this schedule.
Speaker B:And I said, sign me up.
Speaker B:I want to launch before the holiday.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so that's where we are.
Speaker A:Here's another question.
Speaker A:Were they also responsible for your two stunningly handsome and I mean that websites, they are not.
Speaker B:Okay, so I did that.
Speaker B:My nephew, Matt Brown is a professional website developer who now runs a travel service.
Speaker B:Not a travel agency, but a travel service.
Speaker B:But he got into that through website design.
Speaker B:And he does really, really good work.
Speaker B:I love working with him.
Speaker B:He's great.
Speaker A:Dude, between your book covers and your websites, I think they are absolutely right, tip top, on par with all the biggies.
Speaker B:Well, it's, that's great to hear.
Speaker B:I mean, I, I, I love the work they do.
Speaker B:Greenleaf is awesome.
Speaker B:Matt's, you know, obviously he's my nephew.
Speaker B:He's a great, he's a great friend and he's just really talented at what he does.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it does start with talent in that big chair right there.
Speaker A:Mr.
Speaker A:I'm going to say that.
Speaker A:And I do always wrap all my shows with this one closing question.
Speaker A:And it is a best writing advice.
Speaker A:Now, I know, I know you're only two books in, but I bet you some of the wisdom that you're about to bestow upon us will reflect a little bit of your 22 plus at the, @ Microsoft.
Speaker A:Because there's going to be advice that trickles down in that because that business advice and acumen is probably going to help direct some of that writing advice as well.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I suppose that's true.
Speaker B:The thing I would say to people who are looking to write a book, you have to just start.
Speaker B:I mean, this is the hardest thing.
Speaker B:The number of people I talk to who say, yeah, I've thought about writing a book and I kind of want to respond to them and say, well, thinking ain't going to make it happen.
Speaker B:You might want to sit down and start writing.
Speaker B:And so for me, my first fiction novel started with a hundred pages of character sketches of five people.
Speaker B:No plot, no genre.
Speaker B:Tamika wasn't intended to be the main character.
Speaker B:I wrote a hundred pages and I just kept writing.
Speaker B:I didn't worry about the quality.
Speaker B:I didn't try to like, oh, that paragraph wrong, whatever.
Speaker B:I just wrote.
Speaker B:And once I got into that flow, I now am comfortable just sitting down saying, all right, I'm going to write the next chapter.
Speaker B:I have no outline for my Books.
Speaker B:I'm going to write the next chapter and I'll come back the next day and say, 60% of that was great.
Speaker B:I'll rewrite the other 40% and then write the next chapter.
Speaker B:So my, My advice to writers is, and this is gonna sound really silly, you gotta write.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you're, if you're thinking about doing a book, that will not make it happen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just spend some time writing and if you love it, keep doing it.
Speaker A:Well, you know, my golf game is not as good as Tiger Woods.
Speaker A:Probably gonna be a little bit of a surprise to you, but me standing around going, you know, I want to be really good golfer one day.
Speaker A:I want to really crush straight drives me thinking, ain't getting.
Speaker B:Well, that's sort of the point.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And look, some people, some people like to learn from others.
Speaker B:So go take a class, go to a writer's camp, do all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:Some people are experiential, like me.
Speaker B:You know, the first draft of Wilkes insurrection was 550 pages long.
Speaker B:It was terrible.
Speaker B:It was way too long.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I had to cut 200 pages of work, but I learned a ton.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And now I feel like I have the core skills I need to be able to.
Speaker B:You know, book three will be less painful than book two.
Speaker B:Book two was way easier than book one.
Speaker A:Isn't that true of most everything once you just give it some time?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, Robbie Bach the book again, folks.
Speaker A:The Blockchain Syndicate.
Speaker A:You got, you got three websites.
Speaker A:You got the blockchain syndicate.com, you got wilksinsurrection.com.
Speaker A:you've got robbiebock.com.
Speaker A:you are covered and smothered, as we used to say in the South.
Speaker B:Well, and if you go to robbiebok.com, those will link to the other two.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean, each book needs its own sensibility, and the websites reflect the book.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I am 100% with you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You go to, you go to blockchain syndicate.com, it looks and feels exactly like the book.
Speaker A:And you go through it, you feel like you're experiencing the book in a.
Speaker A:In its own kind of way, but not until you pick it up and read it, which you're going to want to do right now.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker A:Now with this, you mentioned earlier that the show, that the book was going to drop on the 22nd of 21st, which is tomorrow.
Speaker A:This show will drop later.
Speaker A:So don't be confused, listener.
Speaker A:By the time the show drops, the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The book will already have been out so just the good news is you don't have any delays.
Speaker A:You can just go pick up the book right away.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Amazon has this amazing thing where they will deliver it to you the next day.
Speaker B:They're really awesome.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Or go to your local bookstore.
Speaker B:I love local bookstores.
Speaker B:Go to a local bookstore, ask them to bring it in, and they'll bring it in quick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, Robbie, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker A:This is great.
Speaker B:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Thanks for being on.
Speaker B:Great questions.
Speaker B:Love the conversation.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Number one podcast for Stories that Thrill the Thriller Zone.
