Emily Bestler on Unmasking the Secrets of Bestsellers
On today's 230th episode of The Thriller Zone with Dave Temple, get ready to dive into the thrilling world of book publishing with the fabulous Emily Bestler, a true rock star in the industry!
We’re talking about her journey from studying English at Columbia to being the Senior VP and Editor-in-Chief at Emily Bestler Books.
With a resume that boasts 79 New York Times bestsellers, she's not just any editor; she’s a literary wizard making dreams come true for authors everywhere. We’ll chat about what makes a successful author-editor relationship, how to spot a bestseller, and the magic behind storytelling that keeps readers glued to the page.
Plus, Emily spills the tea on the latest trends in dark romance and other genres, so buckle up—this is one episode you do NOT want want to miss!
Takeaways:
- This episode marks the 230th installment of the Thriller Zone, and guess what? We're gearing up to celebrate four fantastic years of thrilling content!
- Our guest, Emily Bestler, has an impressive background, having published 79 New York Times bestsellers, including works from renowned authors like Jodi Picoult and Vince Flynn.
- Emily emphasizes the importance of authenticity in writing, stating that writers can't fool readers; they need to write what they know or do deep research to connect.
- In the ever-evolving publishing landscape, staying adaptable is key, especially with trends like TikTok Book Talk changing how books are marketed and discovered.
- Emily's insights about the darker side of storytelling reveal her passion for horror and the complexities of human nature, making it clear why readers are drawn to these narratives.
- The episode wraps up with a reminder that whether you're a seasoned writer or just starting out, writing what you love is crucial for success in the publishing world.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Macmillan
- Random House
- Atria Pocket Books
- Emily Bessler Books
- Simon and Schuster
- Scribner
- Free Press
- Little Simon
- Jack Carr
- 1201 Books
keywords: thriller podcast, book publishing, Emily Bessler, New York Times bestsellers, author editor partnership, storytelling magic, commercial fiction, literary quality, dark romance trends, publishing industry insights, book marketing strategies, author interviews, writing advice, un-agented submissions, thriller genre, creative writing tips, horror publishing, bestsellers, book publishing process, author success stories
Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:I'm your host, David Temple.
Speaker A:And on today's.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:230th episode of the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:As we kick off the month of June, you realize that in about two weeks, two and a half weeks, we're going to celebrate four years with the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:I thought I was going to get hit 300 episodes and I got pretty darn close.
Speaker A:But hey, four years, come on now.
Speaker A:But on today's episode, I have.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Probably easily one of the biggest names in the book publishing business.
Speaker A:She's been educated at the best schools, has a bachelor's degree in English and an MA in English from Columbia University.
Speaker A:After galloping through New York University's publishing program, it was on to Macmillan, then it was on to Random House and then to Atria Pocket books.
Speaker A: Then in: Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:During her 16 years Simon and Schuster, Emily has published, check this out.
Speaker A:79 New York Times bestsellers, 12 number one bestsellers.
Speaker A:With a roster that includes folks like John Connelly, Vince Flynn, Brad Thor, Jodi Picoult, Jack Carr, to name a few.
Speaker A:Our good friend.
Speaker A:So if you can't tell by now, I am incredibly geeked to welcome the talented, the lovely, the oh so charming Emily Bes Thriller right here to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Okay, good deal.
Speaker A:And is that a puppy I see running around?
Speaker B:Yes, I've got two of them running around and they're my constant companions and sometimes disruptive ones.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker A:Because if, if it weren't for the fact that our one year old yellow lab Sunny was not at daycare, she would be.
Speaker B:Aww.
Speaker A:Bouncing around going, dad, I want to be on TV too.
Speaker B:Oh, I know.
Speaker B:They're so sweet, aren't they?
Speaker A:There's nothing like it.
Speaker A:Are you kidding me?
Speaker A: re not going to remember this: Speaker A:It was my first Thriller Fest.
Speaker A:You're bouncing through the room.
Speaker A:It was at the bank.
Speaker A:Big banquet, dinner, finale.
Speaker A:Yeah, some guy, what was his name?
Speaker A:Jack Carr or something like that.
Speaker B:I was in love with people.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:And you bounced through and I was like, emily.
Speaker A:And you're like, hi, I don't know who you are, but we're going this way.
Speaker B:Well, yes, that was a.
Speaker B:That was a lot of people.
Speaker A:That was a lot of people.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker A:It wasn't quite the cusp, but it was cusp adjacent for him very much.
Speaker A:Talking about blowing up.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:And he was so thrilled to be there.
Speaker B:And he still is so thrilled.
Speaker B:You know, it's all been a big adventure for him, which is really fun to see.
Speaker A:Isn't it nice when you find a guy who A, has lived it, B, loves it, C, writes about it, and D, most importantly, is still the same guy that he was when it all started?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker B:That makes it all worthwhile.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, also one of the keys to success, you know, because he really, really cares about his readers and he really cares about doing the best job possible and doing impeccable research and, you know, he's just unjaded by it all.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's gotta be a tough little road to hoe because you've been at this a couple of years.
Speaker A:Few years, few decades, and it would be hard for you not to be jaded, I would think, with the way that the business is rolled this way and the other.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of changes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, it's all.
Speaker B:It never gets any less fun.
Speaker B:I just feel as if I'm really so lucky to have the job I have.
Speaker B:And you know, every job has its ups and its downs, but I just feel so lucky that on a day to day basis I just get to spend my time talking to really interesting, creative people and reading and talking about storylines and, you know, and helping to make people's dreams come true.
Speaker A:That right there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Making people's dreams come true.
Speaker A:I mean, think about how many people in the world can say that, you.
Speaker B:Know, it's extremely satisfying and, and also always inspiring to me how many people there are out there in the world writing books.
Speaker B:It's so cool to me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I saw a, A stat.
Speaker A:I'm not going to remember it right now because I'm on the, on the bubble here, but I saw a stat on how many books are being released, released on any given day.
Speaker A:And I was like, that can't possibly be, but it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All those stories in people's heads, which just tells me.
Speaker A:Tells us, does it not, Emily, that as long as there's somebody breathing, there's somebody who wants to read a good story.
Speaker A:I want to make sure that I.
Speaker A:I've got a couple of questions.
Speaker A:I'll make them easy.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're all softballs.
Speaker A:I promise I won't be hard on you, but there's a.
Speaker A:There's a couple of things.
Speaker A:I had been thinking about this.
Speaker A:You know, I, I've been dreaming about this for some time.
Speaker A:So for you to take the time to spend time.
Speaker A:Thriller Zone is.
Speaker A:It's an honor and a pleasure.
Speaker A:Can I just say that?
Speaker B:Well, thank you so much.
Speaker B:I feel the same.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Well, I want to know, because we're talking.
Speaker A:We started off with Jack Carr.
Speaker A:What makes like that long term author editor partnership so successful?
Speaker A:I, I know there's a lot of elements, but just like, what's that key strand that pulls it all together?
Speaker B:I mean, imagine it's different for, for different people, but I think for my authors, they know that I am 100% on their side and I'm always going to represent their interest, the company, and I'm always going to tell them the truth.
Speaker B:And if it's bad, then we'll be sad together.
Speaker B:If it's good, then we'll be happy together.
Speaker B:I feel as if the agent and the author and myself, we're, you know, we're the central, we're the core and no one cares or could ever care more than us.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Then it moves out from there to, you know, a great publishing team, great marketing team, great publicity team, all of that.
Speaker B:But I, you know, I, I think the main thing is my authors know how much I care and that I'm sticking with them.
Speaker B:I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker B:You know, we're building this together.
Speaker B:I know how talented they are and if things aren't working out, it's not their fault.
Speaker B:You know, might not be my fault either, or our fault, but it's not their fault.
Speaker B:They've done their job.
Speaker B:And our job is to keep pushing and never give up.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Never give up.
Speaker A:I'm going to ask a question that I would.
Speaker A:That came to my mind as I was making notes and I'm going to look like a complete idiot, but I'm okay with that because it happens from time to time, Emily.
Speaker A:But I'm like, okay, Simon and Schuster.
Speaker A:She works with Simon and Schuster.
Speaker A:But I'm like, I've always known you as Emily Bessler Book.
Speaker A:So you have that imprint.
Speaker A:So help me understand, like I'm a 10 year old, how that structure works.
Speaker B:Well, of course there's the larger Simon and Schuster, and then in Simon and Schuster there are a number of imprints, such as Scribner, the children's division, Free Press.
Speaker B:Well, not Free Press anymore, Little Simon.
Speaker B:Atria.
Speaker B:And so within the Atria imprint is nested Emily Bessler Books.
Speaker A:Got it?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And I work with the Atria publicity and marketing and advertising and then the wider sales force for all of Simon and Schuster.
Speaker B:But Emily Bessler Books is Teeny.
Speaker B:It's me and two senior editors and my assistant.
Speaker B:So that's, that's who we are.
Speaker A:Girlfriend, if I may say that.
Speaker A:It may be teeny, but it's powerful.
Speaker A:I mean, come on now, after.
Speaker A:Okay, so after 79, 80 New York Times bestsellers, is that about.
Speaker B:About.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:It begs the question, you know, what drives your eye for discovering that best selling talent?
Speaker A:You know, what is that driving force?
Speaker A:And what patterns do you see in authors that tend to just break through all the noise?
Speaker A:So it's kind of a two part question.
Speaker B:I have always said that I really am middle America.
Speaker B:I grew up in a small town in Martinsville, Virginia.
Speaker B:I grew up buying books at the grocery store with my mom.
Speaker B:There were no bookstores.
Speaker B:I checked out books from the library, so.
Speaker B:And I read everything.
Speaker B:And so then I came to college in New York City.
Speaker B:But I've never left that history behind.
Speaker B:So I've never.
Speaker B:I'm not dwelling in some sort of intellectual ivory tower.
Speaker B:If I really, really like something and I have read a bazillion books because that's what I do for fun.
Speaker B:Not just for work, but for fun.
Speaker B:And I'm never not reading.
Speaker B:And I think if I like something, so are a lot of other people going to.
Speaker B:Because I am middle America.
Speaker B:So I have that faith, I have that knowledge in myself.
Speaker B:If I'm loving something, it can't be that crazy, right?
Speaker B:Because that's not what my background is.
Speaker B:I'm not trying to prove anything.
Speaker B:I'm not coming from some strange angle.
Speaker B:I'm just, I'm every reader.
Speaker A:Well, I just realized that we have a little something in common.
Speaker A:Martinsville, home of the Martinsville Speedway.
Speaker A:I'm from Lynchburg.
Speaker B:Oh, no way.
Speaker B:Oh, I love Lynchburg.
Speaker B:It's a great town.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:City of Seven Hills.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:All right, I've got another.
Speaker A:This is kind of philosophy.
Speaker A:When you're working with authors across different genres, and I know that you're kind of, you're, you're branching even more.
Speaker A:So which we're going to cover here in a second.
Speaker A:How do you balance, or do you.
Speaker A:Well, you have to balance commercial appeal with literary quality because you, you impress me as being very literary fiction savvy.
Speaker A:However, you do have to, you know, the bills have got to be paid, so the light stay on.
Speaker A:So it's commercial appeal, too.
Speaker B:Yes, definitely.
Speaker A:So how do you, you know, how do you do that working among two different, multiple genres?
Speaker B:Well, I mean, it's a couple of things.
Speaker B:There's that storytelling Magic.
Speaker B:A natural born storyteller has a magical ability that nobody can replicate.
Speaker B:And they may tell a story in the most beautiful prose in the world, or they may tell it in a little more of a simple style.
Speaker B:But whatever that magic is that, you know, thousands of years ago made everybody gather around the fire to listen to the tribe storyteller.
Speaker B:That's what that is.
Speaker B:And it's magic.
Speaker B:And you cannot fake it.
Speaker B:And if you can recognize it.
Speaker B:And I think again, if you've read enough and loved enough books and paid attention, just like any reader picks up a book and says, oh my God, I can't stop reading this thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's what it is.
Speaker B:And I think for those who succeed, you have to be able to revise, you have to be able to take suggestions.
Speaker B:Those authors who do not enjoy the editorial relationship and the back and the fourth, they tend not to.
Speaker B:Now, I'm only talking about commercial fiction and nonfiction, but that relationship, I think is key to an author's success.
Speaker B:Because, you know, for example, as I have said to many an author, okay, you're telling me what you meant and you're telling me what I should be thinking.
Speaker B:But you don't get to tell every reader who buys your book this.
Speaker B:So don't tell me, show me, put it in the book.
Speaker B:Because you don't get to like, slip a note in there and say, on page 35, in case, you know, you weren't afraid, here's why you needed to be afraid.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And so, and that's one of the purposes I serve, just, you know, being that first, every reader, that responsive reader.
Speaker B:And, and I find that most commercial novelists do that naturally.
Speaker B:They're not in it for their egos.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're in it because they just love what they're doing and they want to tell a story.
Speaker B:And if somebody says, here's how you can tell it even more effectively, they go, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker A:That's that one little lesson that you hear in almost every single writing class show.
Speaker A:Don't tell.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It seems so basic, but it's, it's essential.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Speaking of multi genres, I learned February this year marked a new horror imprint, which I gotta say, I was a little bit surprised.
Speaker A:1201 books.
Speaker A:So this was this.
Speaker A:This is re.
Speaker A:This has got my interest ratcheted up to about 11.
Speaker A:So tell me about this creator driven IP for books and films and how you met.
Speaker A:Who's the cat?
Speaker B:Scott.
Speaker B:Glasgow.
Speaker A:Scott.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:It's a couple of things.
Speaker B:Well, first of all, I have always read and loved horror, and I love scary movies, and I love being scared.
Speaker B:There has not been, for years and years and years, there has not been a lot of horror to publish.
Speaker B:It was mostly, you know, not particularly well written.
Speaker B:And then you had your giants, you know, you had Stephen King and you had, you know, a few others in that category, and then.
Speaker B:And then everything else was just not that great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm not sure why that has changed.
Speaker B:But why does anything, you know, why does romance work better in one decade than another?
Speaker B:Why does, you know, why do political thrillers work better in one decade than another?
Speaker B:Or historical romance?
Speaker B:It is cyclical in so many ways in publishing, but for whatever reason, there is more of it where it used to be, thin on the ground.
Speaker B:And then about four years ago, I bought a novel called We Used to Live Here by a young guy named Marcus Cleaver.
Speaker B:And his agent, Liz Parker, sold me the short story for him to turn into a novel.
Speaker B:And he'd.
Speaker B:She'd already sold his short story, which had gone viral on Reddit, to Amazon for just a lot of money.
Speaker B:So I bought the rights to the short story for him to turn into a novel, which he did.
Speaker B:And we've sold, I don't know, about 150,000 copies of it at this point, and we haven't even done the trade paperback.
Speaker B:We're hoping to get that on the New York Times list.
Speaker B:And so Liz and I said, well, this was fun.
Speaker B:This was really, really fun.
Speaker B:And she and Scott Glasgow, the producer, have sold a lot of IP and he's producing a lot of IP stories.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And so between the three of us, we just kind of thought, why don't we just, you know, why don't we do this?
Speaker B:Y' all do the movie.
Speaker B:Once it's greenlit, I'll do the book.
Speaker B:And that was the beginning.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Marcus's second novel is called the Caretaker, which is already super scary.
Speaker B: ill be the first novel on the: Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I got too many questions to go down too many rabbit holes, but I do want to know, because I'm.
Speaker A:I'm dying to know.
Speaker A:What is the.
Speaker A:What's that magic?
Speaker A:The secret sauce, the through line?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:What's the one thing that you go, wow, this is what made me not be able to put this book down.
Speaker B:I don't know if it is any one thing, because I do publish a lot of genres, so if you've read.
Speaker B:I think one thing that helps is I do read the bestseller list all the time.
Speaker B:And I do read other new fiction all the time.
Speaker B:And then I go back and read classics all the time to keep my senses sharp.
Speaker B:Because if you read a lot of C level novels and submissions, you'll get a B minus and think it's a masterpiece.
Speaker B:Yeah, you have to keep exposing yourself to what's working so that.
Speaker B:That Ping is fresh.
Speaker B:And when you get it with a manuscript, you go, I know this feeling.
Speaker B:I just had it when I read, et cetera.
Speaker A:You know, that ping, you said, I love that is that intuitive spirit in us that goes, ooh, I don't know how I know, but I know that this is a slam dunk.
Speaker A:And boy, you know, and Emily, I probably get four to six books a week here at the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Since we've started, it's increased quite a bit.
Speaker A:And so I'm reading probably two books a week.
Speaker A:And it's so funny.
Speaker A:Much like yourself, I'm sure.
Speaker A:It used to be, oh, I'll give it a chapter.
Speaker A:Then it became, I'll give it a few pages.
Speaker A:Now it's like, if you can't grab me on that first page, I'm not going to turn to the second page.
Speaker A:Oh, I picked up one the other day in the first paragraph.
Speaker A:I went, okay, I don't care what else is doing, honey, put dinner on hold.
Speaker A:I'm going to dive into this thing.
Speaker B:I had lunch with an agent, Peter Lampeck, a long, long time ago.
Speaker B:And at lunch he told me, I have this book I'm going to send to you.
Speaker B:It's called Pirate by this fellow named Ted Bell.
Speaker B:And I thought to myself at lunch, I'm buying it.
Speaker B:And I did.
Speaker B:And he was a New York Times bestseller from the start.
Speaker B:That's the shortest amount of time it ever took me to.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm totally buying this book.
Speaker B:Send it to me.
Speaker B:But I'm buying it.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:God rest his soul.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He became such a good friend of mine.
Speaker A:He's such a dear guy.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:Such a good guy.
Speaker A:Okay, all right.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:So you've worked across with authors from thrillers, literary horror.
Speaker A:What draws you to a story that examines the darker aspects of human nature?
Speaker A:Like, we're always going, oh, I like the darkness of.
Speaker A:Of this kind of a person who does this thing.
Speaker A:Is there anything specific?
Speaker A:And then I'll jump off of this, but.
Speaker A:Or is it just again, like we just said that Ping.
Speaker B:Yeah, I do like dark.
Speaker B:You know, I just.
Speaker B:I can read anything.
Speaker B:And I do read across all genres.
Speaker B:But I've had many moments in my life where people go, yeah, that was just too.
Speaker B:That was a bridge too far for me.
Speaker B:Like, you know, when he wrapped his guts around the tree and set it on fire?
Speaker B:That was just too much for me.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you're kidding.
Speaker B:I loved that.
Speaker B:I thought that was so fun.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:I'm not proud of it, but I.
Speaker B:I don't have any problem with the darkness.
Speaker A:Okay, well, fair enough.
Speaker A:This popped into my head a second ago.
Speaker A:You mentioned.
Speaker A:Because you mentioned romance and such.
Speaker A:Is there something that's right now that's just blazing hot that you see?
Speaker A:You know, it's always trends.
Speaker A:Oh, this was hot then and this is hot now.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's middle now.
Speaker A:Geez.
Speaker A:Middle.
Speaker A:You're launching June for us here in.
Speaker A:As we approach our fourth year.
Speaker A:Like, what's just blazing hot?
Speaker B:Dark romance.
Speaker A:Oh, so dark romance would be.
Speaker A:Would this be in that.
Speaker A:The whole gray world.
Speaker B:Dark because it's violent, it's dark because it's.
Speaker B:Many would consider it to be misogynistic.
Speaker B:It's dark because it's X rated and.
Speaker A:It'S selling like crazy and mommy likes it.
Speaker B:So I actually have a very young editor working with me who has an amusingly sharp eye for dark romance.
Speaker B:Because you can't fake it.
Speaker B:You can't just buy it because it's hot.
Speaker B:You have to love it already.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And much to my shock, she, sweet little thing that she is, has read a lot of it and does love it.
Speaker B:And she has an amazing eye for it.
Speaker B:And we have bought some incredible, incredible stuff.
Speaker B:And I do, even though I.
Speaker B:We didn't call it dark romance.
Speaker B:Then when I published you, for example, which has been a hit series on Amazon Prime.
Speaker B:Is it Amazon or Netflix?
Speaker B:Anyway, Amazon for years now.
Speaker B:We sold hundreds of thousands of copies of that.
Speaker B:That was probably one of the first dark romances.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And I published 365 days, also a sick dark romance.
Speaker B:We sold so many.
Speaker B:And it was a huge hit series on Netflix as well.
Speaker B:So even though we didn't start the trend, I kind of feel like we did.
Speaker A:You know what's so crazy about this?
Speaker A:And it shouldn't surprise me, but I've always seen you and please take this in the best way possible.
Speaker A:You're so classy and I don't know what the word for debonair for a guy, but elegant.
Speaker A:You're so.
Speaker A:And you have this whole air of just sophistication and elegance.
Speaker A:I remember when I saw you at Thriller Fest.
Speaker A:I'm like, wow, she's so elegant.
Speaker A:And for some reason, don't ask me why, I can't imagine seeing you all curled up with your pups there.
Speaker A:Oh, she's so hot and steamy.
Speaker A:You go get them.
Speaker B:You know, it's like, how low can she sink, Right?
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:Honestly, you know, I am here to make money for the company.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And I do, like I said, I've always read across all genres.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:And good storytelling is good storytelling, you know, and if it's not.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:But if it is, then let's publish it and get it out there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And sell it.
Speaker B:It's part of what's so fun about commercial publishing.
Speaker A:And it is fun, isn't it?
Speaker A:I mean, like, you started off the conversation by saying what a great job I have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Before I move on to the next question, give me a title of a dark, steamy, evil romance that I can read so that I can get an idea what turns Little Miss Emily on.
Speaker B:Well, we are taking over the publication of a novel called Any Means Necessary.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And you can buy that on Amazon now and then in a few months it will be.
Speaker B:We'll have taken over that publication.
Speaker B:And there's another.
Speaker B:We tried to buy this and did not succeed because it went for too much money.
Speaker B:A novel called Willing Prey, if you can imagine.
Speaker A:Huh.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That, that gives me something to spend those late nights when.
Speaker B:Enjoy.
Speaker A:Honey Bear is doing some other work.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Let's look at.
Speaker A:As we, you know, make our way toward closing, publishing landscape, we all know, has changed so much.
Speaker A:The houses keep shrinking or combining.
Speaker A:It's, you know, from digital disruption, social media marketing.
Speaker A:How do you adapt strategy while maintaining your core mission?
Speaker A:That's going to be the first part of the question.
Speaker A:How do you keep that together?
Speaker B:It is a team effort where we all get together weekly for all sorts of reasons.
Speaker B:And it's really about talking about, you know, what do we see evolving?
Speaker B:Oh, it looks like this has turned into a thing.
Speaker B:Or, you know, let's just say TikTok Book Talk wasn't a thing.
Speaker B:And then one day it was a thing.
Speaker B:And everyone's like, okay, we gotta, you know, gotta get on that because it is always changing.
Speaker B:So it's really just about watching the weather and adapting and you know, publishing, it's not the most fast paced business in the world.
Speaker B:So there's time, you know, but you do, you do want to watch in many ways what we do to sell books hasn't changed at all.
Speaker B:There's just not that many things you can do to sell a book, and there's not many.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The number of readers out there, it's not going to change overnight.
Speaker B:It's not going to go from a million potential to 20 million potential.
Speaker B:So we know where they are.
Speaker B:We definitely know who they are.
Speaker B:And the main thing is to keep on top of where they're finding the books they want to read.
Speaker B:And of course, the changing format situation.
Speaker B:So no more mass markets.
Speaker B:Thought that would happen.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And what did I just hear?
Speaker A:I was on a call yesterday.
Speaker A:We know the same person.
Speaker A:I'm going to leave him quiet for a second, but he said, we were talking about I'm pitching a book right now.
Speaker A:And he was looking at my notes, and I said, It's 100 to 120,000.
Speaker A:He goes, oh, you got to change that, dude.
Speaker A:You got to change that right now.
Speaker A:I'm like, really?
Speaker A:He goes, oh, yeah, Whole.
Speaker A:Whole business system wide.
Speaker A:80 to 100 tops.
Speaker A:And I'm like, well, I didn't know that.
Speaker A:Is that right?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Friend of mine, I don't think you can do that.
Speaker B:I don't think you can pigeonhole.
Speaker B:I personally love a good long read.
Speaker B:And so do a lot of other book lovers ever try to publish that way and say, oh, can only be, you know, this long, or, oh, it can only be about this subject, or no, I.
Speaker B:I don't agree with that.
Speaker A:So, you know, I've always lived by this philosophy.
Speaker A:Fortunately, I had a great meteoric career when I was right out of high school in radio, and I did that for 25 years.
Speaker A:And I learned one thing, Emily, way back.
Speaker A:I was probably 13, 14 when I started fantasizing I'll be back being on the radio.
Speaker A:And I said, you know what?
Speaker A:There's going to be a lot of pushback along the way, especially when you grow up as a pk.
Speaker A:So I'm a preacher's kid playing rock and roll music.
Speaker A:And that had its own hell of a belly wick.
Speaker A:But I said, you know what?
Speaker A:I'm going to do it my way.
Speaker A:I'm just going to.
Speaker A:I'm going to keep plowing ahead until you say no.
Speaker A:And if you say no, I'm still going to keep going unless you say no.
Speaker A:And I can hire you for this or I can pay you well for this, and then it changes a little bit.
Speaker A:But never been a big fan of, what do they call them, Rules?
Speaker A:Never really been that big of a fan.
Speaker B:Me neither.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I work on the premise that, like, If I come to you with a book that's way too fat, I'm gonna trust you to go, dave, I love you, babe, but 190,000 words is just too much.
Speaker A:You can tell the story in 120, right.
Speaker B:I mean, that's the process.
Speaker B:But I would never say, I don't want this book because it's got too many words in it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'll edit it and I'll say, you know what?
Speaker B:We can put this book on a diet because these.
Speaker B:You've got material in here that's slowing it down and it doesn't need to.
Speaker B:And, you know, that's different.
Speaker B:But I wouldn't just go into it saying, you know, this is the only kind of thing I'll buy.
Speaker B:And if you've already.
Speaker B:If you can't do that for me, then I don't.
Speaker B:I'm not even interested.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Fair enough.
Speaker B:Think about the history of bestsellerdom and what's worked out of the blue, you know, you just can't know.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:There are books that I've picked up before that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Year.
Speaker A:The Locust by Terry Hayes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I remember thinking.
Speaker B:Pat Hawkins.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm thinking to myself, terry, you're a nice guy, but 750 pages.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:There's no frigging way I'm going to go the distance.
Speaker A:But damned if I wasn't one quarter in.
Speaker A:And I'm like, I am not moving away from.
Speaker A:I read that thing in three days.
Speaker A:I couldn't put it down.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I don't want to end.
Speaker B:You're sad when it's over.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:When you can take a genre and bend it a little bit and just create a world that I'm like.
Speaker A:I've never been in.
Speaker A:I've never been inside this world quite like this.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I want to stay here.
Speaker A:Please don't go away.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:I am approaching my timeout because you have things to do.
Speaker A:Two more questions.
Speaker A:One real quick.
Speaker A:My listeners would kick me in the pants if I did not ask this.
Speaker A:Do you take submissions.
Speaker B:Unagented?
Speaker A:Well, that's a lot.
Speaker A:I wouldn't expect you to say yes to that.
Speaker A:So let's.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:On both sides.
Speaker A:Agented and not.
Speaker B:Well, I'm always reading submissions.
Speaker B:Always, always, always.
Speaker B:Because I'm always looking for the, you know, next.
Speaker B:And I'm always building up my backbench.
Speaker B:But it is far, far better to have an agent for all sorts of reasons.
Speaker B:Just quickly.
Speaker B:An agent knows what editors to send a Submission to.
Speaker B:And a writer doesn't know that.
Speaker B:And so he could be wasting his time.
Speaker B:One editorial department might have 15 editors in it, and the editor who would have loved your book, you wouldn't know that to the person, the wrong person, agents are like, I know the exact right editor.
Speaker B:So that's why it's super important to get that agent.
Speaker B:And also, most people don't read unagented submissions because there's so much to read already.
Speaker B:Sure, every would be author.
Speaker B:I very, very.
Speaker B:And plus, you want somebody watching out for your.
Speaker B:Well, you don't need an agent to watch out for your interest.
Speaker B:I'm not going to be in any way, shape or form against the interest of my authority, but it's just good to have somebody officially in your court doing this paperwork and everything else.
Speaker B:So, yes, I'll read an unagented submission if it comes on the recommendation of somebody who I know and trust.
Speaker B:But far and away, what I'm reading are agented submissions because there's just not enough time in the world.
Speaker A:You just took the word right out of my mouth.
Speaker A:I was like, who's got the time to be able to.
Speaker A:You've already got your stack.
Speaker A:No telling how tall that stack is.
Speaker A:But you have an extra.
Speaker A:What's that barrier of entry by not having the representation and the knowledge and the history, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker B:And finding.
Speaker B:Just a quick anecdote.
Speaker B:My Vince Flynn, God rest his soul, had an agent for his first novel, Term Limits, who was a nonfiction agent.
Speaker B:And she really didn't know who to submit to, and she submitted to the wrong people.
Speaker B:And then he got a new agent who did fiction.
Speaker B:She was a nonfiction agent.
Speaker B:He got a new agent who knew who to send the book to.
Speaker B:And he sent it to me and I bought it within a day or two.
Speaker B:And this is after two or three years of Vince trying to find a publisher.
Speaker B:But it was going to the wrong people.
Speaker B:So that's how important it is.
Speaker A:I'm having a flashback from sixth grade when I Mrs.
Speaker A:Alfreda Scott, sixth grade math teacher, said, Mr.
Speaker A:Temple, a word to the wise is sufficient.
Speaker A:I never really fully understood that, but I cannot get it out of my head.
Speaker A:Okay, last question.
Speaker A:Being a writer yourself, having been around it your whole career, it's just the one question I close all my shows with.
Speaker A:And again, this is fabulous that you're here.
Speaker A:Do you have some best writing advice?
Speaker A:Because my audience is a whole bevy of would be writers, former writers, current writers, on the way writers.
Speaker A:What's that Best writing advice.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker B:I don't think I have anything new to say.
Speaker B:All the smartest people in the world have already said it.
Speaker B:But if there's one thing I notice when a book isn't working is if the author is not writing what they know.
Speaker B:Because you can't fool people.
Speaker B:You can't not know about being a doctor and then have a main character who's a doctor.
Speaker B:Unless you do that deep, deep, deep research, then, okay, but you gotta write what you know, whether it's from your own experience or whether or not you've done that deep research.
Speaker B:But you cannot fool readers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or maybe if it's just a sincere passion that you're just so absorbed with and you're.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're pulling that information in, Right?
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:Because, for example, Vince, back to Vince, he was not in the military, he was not in the CIA, but he did so much research that he might as well have been the director of the CIA.
Speaker B:In fact, Washington came to him all the time to go, how did you know that?
Speaker B:Because he met, he made the contacts, he had the relationships.
Speaker B:He did all of that all on his own until he, in fact, was an expert and then he could write it.
Speaker B:But he couldn't have done it without that.
Speaker A:Well, Ms.
Speaker A:Basil, this has been absolutely divine.
Speaker A:I wish I was over there sitting at that dining room table.
Speaker A:We could just sit around and have some tea or whatever.
Speaker B:But charmed, I'm sure.
Speaker A:Charmed, I'm sure.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for this delightful time.
Speaker A:It really has been wonderful.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:You Very, very fun for me, too.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Once again, Emily Bessler.
Speaker A:Man, this was.
Speaker A:I can call this a highlight of my career.
Speaker A:We're kicking off June.
Speaker A:We're talking about the business of book publishing.
Speaker A:We're nearly 300 episodes, and it's Emily Bessler of Emily Bessler Books.
Speaker A:My day is made.
Speaker A:All right, now, I'm not going to give you his name yet, but I have at the end of this month or closer to the end of this month, I have another of the biggest names in the book publishing business.
Speaker A:So here's what we're doing.
Speaker A:Yes, of course, we're talking about authors.
Speaker A:We'll have two authors on in the next two Thursdays.
Speaker A:Thriller Thursdays, of course.
Speaker A:But I want to bookend June with two huge names in the publishing business.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:I'm interested.
Speaker A:Secondly, I know a lot of my listeners are interested.
Speaker A:We want to write good books.
Speaker A:We want to get published.
Speaker A:We want to have a great agent.
Speaker A:We want to have a great publishing house.
Speaker A:We want to be in this business, Right?
Speaker A:But we got to know the business.
Speaker A:And these folks are going to open the doors to some of the inside secrets, to some of the machinations of how it all happens.
Speaker A:So Emily was today, another big name is coming at the end of the month.
Speaker A:I will tell you more very shortly.
Speaker A:But we have two authors currently that are going to be right here in the middle of the month.
Speaker A:I'm saving Megan Abbott for our four year anniversary.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, baby.
Speaker A:Megan Abbott is going to be on the show in two weeks.
Speaker A:Before then, I'm going to have Thomas Trang.
Speaker A:Thomas is a new writer.
Speaker A:His book came along to me.
Speaker A:Hang on one second.
Speaker A:Here it is.
Speaker A:Check it out.
Speaker A:Dark neon dirt.
Speaker A:I picked this book up.
Speaker A:I could not put it down.
Speaker A:He's debut or nearly debut, which we only do one of those every once in a while.
Speaker A:But the book is great.
Speaker A:And since we're talking about since we're having show and tell, here's Megan's new book, El Dorado Drive.
Speaker A:I just cracked it.
Speaker A:As Megan always does, she thrills every page.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:I have spent enough time babbling about that.
Speaker A:I just want to give you an idea what's coming up.
Speaker A:Thank you, by the way, to all the wonderful comments that have come in recently.
Speaker A:I have gotten some of the nicest emails ever.
Speaker A:You have no idea what it means to me.
Speaker A:I will share them on a future show.
Speaker A:Anyway, you can always reach out to thethrillerzonemail.com if you'd like to be a guest on the show.
Speaker A:Swing over to our website and it's right here, thethrillerzone.com register.
Speaker A:Fill out some information.
Speaker A:We'll consider you being on the show until next time.
Speaker A:I'm Dave Templey, your host.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining us.
Speaker A:Thanks for being there.
Speaker A:Thanks for making June, now almost four years, such a pleasure to be around.
Speaker A:I'll see you next time for another edition of the Thriller Zone, your number one podcast for stories that thrill the Thriller Zone.
