Why You Shouldn't Miss Thomas Trang's Debut: Dark Neon Dirt
Get ready to dive into the wild world of “Dark Neon Dirt,” because today's 231st episode with Dave Temple, the host of The Thriller Zone, we’re hanging out with debut author Thomas Trang.
Let me tell you, this cat knows how to spin a tale, and we kick things off by gushing over his book that’s got all the thrilling vibes you’d expect—think crime, grit, and a dash of clever banter.
Thomas shares his journey from the shipping industry to the literary scene, proving that you can go from navigating the high seas to navigating the depths of character development without missing a beat. Plus, we’ll chat about how the magic of storytelling intertwines with real-life experiences, and why engaging characters are the secret sauce to any gripping narrative.
If you’re into sharp dialogue and stories that hit home, you’re in for a treat—this episode is a must-listen!
Takeaways:
- In today's episode of the Thriller Zone, we had the pleasure of welcoming debut author Thomas Trang, whose book 'Dark Neon Dirt' is creating quite the buzz in the literary world.
- We dove deep into the intricacies of character development, emphasizing that it's not just about the plot but how well we connect with the characters that truly draws readers in.
- Thomas shared his journey from working in shipping to writing thrillers, revealing how his diverse experiences enrich his storytelling and character creation.
- The conversation highlighted the importance of dialogue in fiction, with both hosts agreeing that strong dialogue can elevate a story and bring characters to life.
- We also discussed the fascinating blend of personal experiences and cultural references that shape Thomas's writing style, making 'Dark Neon Dirt' a rich tapestry of influences.
- Lastly, we touched on the future of storytelling, as Thomas hinted at an upcoming sci-fi project that will maintain the gripping essence of his debut while exploring new themes.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Shotgun Honey
- Bad Fido
Keywords: debut author podcast, thriller zone podcast, Thomas Trang interview, Dark Neon Dirt, writing advice for authors, crime fiction writing, character development in thrillers, Elmore Leonard influence, dialogue in writing, audiobook recommendations, publishing debut novels, writing process tips, storytelling techniques, crafting engaging narratives, essential writing skills, podcasting for authors, literary podcast, suspenseful storytelling, author interviews, book recommendations
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hello, my friend.
Speaker B:I'm glad you're here.
Speaker B:Dave Temple, your host of the Thriller Zone.
Speaker B:And on today's 231st episode, I have a debut author that has blown me away.
Speaker B:You know, you're going to hear me geek out on this show, and it's something I do from time to time.
Speaker B:And for those of you who have been writing in going, can I please get on the show?
Speaker B:I have been.
Speaker B:We have been turning away some debut authors because of a number of different reasons, but I hand pick every one every once in a while, and I welcome on the show.
Speaker B:And there's a myriad of reasons why I can't do tons of debuts, but this guy, Thomas Trang, has written a book called Dark Neon Dirt.
Speaker B:Holy bananas, this thing is smoking.
Speaker B:It's so good, man.
Speaker B:When you run across a debut author.
Speaker B:Now, he's written some short stories, but a debut author like this, you know that he is primed for huge success.
Speaker B:Shotgun, honey, got a shout out to you coming in the show.
Speaker B:So, Ron Phillips, we need to talk.
Speaker B:Let's get on into it with Thomas Trang right here on the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:My man cave, my literary man cave is in the process of getting put together.
Speaker A:So it's a bit like, you know, when you have those newscasters and, you know, they're sitting at a desk and sort of waist up there in a suit and tie, and they look very professional, but they're.
Speaker A:Underneath, it's board shorts and.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, just.
Speaker A:Just out of here.
Speaker A:It's absolute chaos.
Speaker B:Thomas, I know exactly what you're talking about because I'm wearing a dress shirt, but I'm wearing a thong below, so.
Speaker A:I wouldn't have expected anything less.
Speaker B:Oh, God, we're gonna have so much fun.
Speaker A:This is gonna be good.
Speaker A:I can tell already.
Speaker B:I have been looking forward to it.
Speaker B:And if you're ready, no pressure.
Speaker B:This is all about, you know, my show.
Speaker B:It's all fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm a regular listener, so, yeah, I know what to expect.
Speaker A:More or less.
Speaker B:More or less.
Speaker B:It's easy.
Speaker A:As long.
Speaker A:As long.
Speaker A:As long as I'm coming through loud and clear.
Speaker A:Because there's nothing worse when I'm listening to a podcast, and it's usually the guest is a bit crackly.
Speaker A:Sounds like they're down the end of a.
Speaker A:Well, all that sort of thing.
Speaker B:I'm telling you something.
Speaker B:I had a conversation with Josh Mendoza.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And you saw his video, which was pure shite.
Speaker A:Shite.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Very good.
Speaker A:You're making me feel at home.
Speaker B:I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna do everything I can, but I will not try the accent.
Speaker B:It's not very good.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker B:He and I were talking.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He and I are both filmmakers.
Speaker B:He's more of a filmmaker than me, I suppose, because he's more recent.
Speaker B:But, um, folks, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm just rolling, by the way.
Speaker B:I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna save some of this.
Speaker B:We have come to the conclusion audiences will put up with shitty visuals, that they get stellar audio, but they will not do the converse, which is what you just said.
Speaker B:I mean, you gotta have good audio, or people just won't listen.
Speaker B:Especially in a world of podcasts.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker A:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I'll be honest.
Speaker A:Most of the podcasts I listen to, I don't do visual.
Speaker A:I just put the earbuds in.
Speaker A:If I'm on the train, you know, I just stare out the window blankly and listen.
Speaker B:Speaking of that very phrase, I'm going to come to a point in the show that is one of my favorites in your book, so don't let me forget that.
Speaker B:Ladies and gentlemen on the show, Thomas Trang, author of Check this out.
Speaker B:Dark Neon Dirt.
Speaker B:Bam.
Speaker B:My brother.
Speaker A:Thank you, David.
Speaker A:It's good to be here.
Speaker A:Dialing in from or calling in from not so sunny London today.
Speaker B:Isn't it funny that San Diego experiencing their first real rain wave of the season.
Speaker B:Here it is June 3rd, when this airs.
Speaker B:It'll be a few days later, and it's been raining since midnight, so crazy.
Speaker A:Well, they must have known I was coming on your show, so they wanted me to feel at home.
Speaker A:My apologies.
Speaker B:No worries.
Speaker B:I'm going to start out of the gate with something that, you know, I'm.
Speaker B:You told me earlier in the green room that you were a fan.
Speaker B:Avid fan.
Speaker B:You were listening a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:So you know what a fanatic I am for book covers.
Speaker B:One of my favorite book covers, probably in the last six months, easily.
Speaker B:It just smokes.
Speaker B:I'm gonna have.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm gonna share it here.
Speaker B:I'm gonna get it in more detail, but it just.
Speaker B:It just rocks.
Speaker B:I don't know who the cats at Shotgun Honey did this, but I want to applaud them.
Speaker B:Who.
Speaker B:Who did this?
Speaker B:Bad Fido.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is the.
Speaker A:I guess it's the graphic design pseudonym of Ron Phillips, who is the head honcho at Shotgun Honey.
Speaker A:You know, I would have said.
Speaker A:I mean, if you look at.
Speaker A:You go to shotgunhoney.com.
Speaker A:you look at the back catalog.
Speaker A:All the covers are great and obviously mine's no exception.
Speaker A:I used to say, I think he's.
Speaker A:He's a graphic designer that just started a publishing house just to make covers.
Speaker A:But actually it's not true because if you read the books, they're all great too.
Speaker A:But he's really good because he doesn't seem to have a definable style.
Speaker A:Like you couldn't necessarily look at something and say, oh, that's Ron's, because he really tailors the covers to the vibe and, and what's going on in the book.
Speaker A:And he's very good about getting feedback from the authors as well.
Speaker A:We went back and forth and I had some different ideas.
Speaker A:Thankfully, he ignored most of them because I have to admit, you know, I leave it to the experts.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:My suggestions were a little bit more.
Speaker A:Well, it's called dark neon and dirt.
Speaker A:It's got to have neon and it's got that very well worn la neon at night kind of image in my head.
Speaker A:And he said, oh, that's good, that's great.
Speaker A:And then he came back with that and I said, you know what?
Speaker A:That's even better.
Speaker A:It's absolutely perfect because it looks like a.
Speaker A:Well, not regular, but you look at it and you say it's a crime novel.
Speaker A:It's dark, it's.
Speaker A:But there's something to it that just gives it a little bit of an edge.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know what it is.
Speaker A:I think book covers are a little bit like that definition of pornography.
Speaker A:I can't really tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it.
Speaker A:And yeah, that's how that came out.
Speaker A:It was really good.
Speaker B:It just flat out does not miss.
Speaker B:And I want you to introduce me.
Speaker B:I should have thought of this earlier.
Speaker B:I guess I've just been overwhelmed.
Speaker B:Please introduce me to Ron Phillips because I want him on the show.
Speaker B:I geek out about his work.
Speaker B:I've had how many authors from Shotgun Honey on the show?
Speaker B:Matter of fact, when I was starting the show, I think I had more Shotgun Honey people than anything else.
Speaker B:So please introduce us.
Speaker B:Tell them I want them on the show there.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I'm sure he'd be thrilled to do it.
Speaker B:Now I'm going to massacre this and I'm going to be all over the place because I have so much to say to you, but.
Speaker B:Fong Tavan.
Speaker A:Oh, Fifung Tavan.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I was kind of close.
Speaker A:You were pretty close, yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Who is that?
Speaker A:That is my uncle who passed away about eight, nine years ago, I want to say.
Speaker A:And so I dedicated the book to him.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's at the top of the.
Speaker A:That's at the top of the book.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker A:And it was just one of those things because I.
Speaker A:And maybe we'll get into this in a bit more detail later.
Speaker A:I spent a lot of my teenage years, childhood in Paris, living with various aunts and uncles and so forth there.
Speaker A:And he is.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was, well, my aunt's husband.
Speaker A:And he was a big crime guy, as it turns out.
Speaker A:Like, he used to watch a lot of.
Speaker A:A lot of Miami Vice, a lot of reruns and think NYPD Blue.
Speaker A:He was mad for NYPD Blue when that was on.
Speaker A:So I'm maybe aging myself here.
Speaker B:Great show.
Speaker A:Great show.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was a big David Caruso guy.
Speaker A:More than David Caruso is a David Caruso guy, I think.
Speaker B:Is that possible?
Speaker A:Well, I don't know how he was with CSI Miami.
Speaker A:We never got.
Speaker A:We never had that discussion.
Speaker A:But, yeah, when it came time to dedicate the book to someone, it just made.
Speaker A:It just made perfect sense.
Speaker A:And actually, I've had a lot of family members that have picked up the book out of curiosity or to see whether they're mentioned in passing.
Speaker A:And when they see that, they're.
Speaker A:They're blown away.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it's a nice thing.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:I'm glad I started there because I want.
Speaker B:Before I get into the book and what I think about the book, I wanted to get to know you, because quite frankly, folks, if you go search Thomas Trang online, you're not going to find a lot about him.
Speaker B:Here's what you get.
Speaker B:Thomas Trang is a Vietnamese author currently living in London after stints in Paris, Sydney, New York and Singapore.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Thomas enjoys fine wine and quiet walks along the oceanside with friends on sunny afternoons or anything like that.
Speaker B:I mean, there's.
Speaker B:There's no.
Speaker A:I do all that.
Speaker A:But, no, I kept it brief.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker A:I think you're either modest.
Speaker B:You're either modest or running from the law.
Speaker A:Yeah, it could be both.
Speaker A:I've got a couple of writer friends who always joke that they say, trang, he must be a spy, because when you talk to him.
Speaker A:I lived here, I lived there, and he seems to know a lot about a lot, and you can't really pin him down.
Speaker A:And they say, you know what?
Speaker A:You know, what do you do for a day job?
Speaker A:I work in shipping.
Speaker A:And they said that's just so vague that can't be real.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is.
Speaker A:I think sometimes with that sort of stuff, maybe less is more, at least for me.
Speaker A:I think maybe if I keep putting out books and building up a catalog, then maybe more of myself comes out that way.
Speaker A:Um, but I think it.
Speaker A:My personality, it's all in the book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Obviously the biographical details are slightly different, but I think as with most authors, the.
Speaker A:The characters are all some sort of part of their personality.
Speaker B:Write what you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, but he.
Speaker B:Wait a minute.
Speaker B:Are you literally in shipping?
Speaker A:Yeah, I work for a ship broker, which is more or less like a real estate agent for ships.
Speaker A:So anything from.
Speaker A:I want a ship to go from port A to port B, or I want to take a ship for five years on contract.
Speaker A:I want to build a ship, I want to actually scrap a ship and get money for the steel and everything.
Speaker A:So where we've got our grubby fingers in all parts of the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The chain there, and we get a commission, and that's the entire business model.
Speaker B:So it begs the question, how does one go from being an employee in the shipping business to writing thrillers?
Speaker B:Now, before you answer that, I don't mean that like.
Speaker B:Well, Dave, do you think because you are a radio announcer, you gotta write about radio?
Speaker B:I guess what I'm getting at is I don't think I've ever spoken to a writer who is in the shipping business.
Speaker B:So there is that.
Speaker B:First thing.
Speaker B:Second of all, I think it's interesting that you would be in a business that's so one side of the brain.
Speaker B:And while you're creating your world is one other side of the brain, which is maybe wherein lies the magic.
Speaker A:I've always been writing.
Speaker A:I think it's probably the other way around.
Speaker A:I think the writing and reading has always been there.
Speaker A:The shipping is more recent thing.
Speaker A:Previous to that, I was working in oil refining and chemicals and that sort of thing.
Speaker A:So that's what I do within the shipping side of things.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think you just come out of college and you get a job where you can.
Speaker A:And I could always write to a certain degree.
Speaker A:And so you end up in journalism, but you think, oh, there's no money in journalism.
Speaker A:And they said, well, have you tried business journalism?
Speaker A:And so on and so forth.
Speaker A:And then you end up working at the world's largest ship broker.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:And yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's how that came about.
Speaker A:But I think it works in a way because my background, I've moved around a lot.
Speaker A:I'VE lived in a lot of different places.
Speaker A:So perhaps the global aspect of shipping suits my background.
Speaker A:And you know, the way I think.
Speaker B:That'S perfect because you do have a universal appeal and there is a, there's a very large world inside.
Speaker B:Dark neon dirt.
Speaker B:So you said something that again was one of my questions.
Speaker B:So I'm going to give you a two parter.
Speaker B:How long have you been writing and who do you suppose has been your biggest influence?
Speaker A:Well, I get, I mean, I guess I've been writing for a very long time, since I was a kid or in high school.
Speaker A:But it was never something that I took that seriously because I think at that age you just write and it's fun.
Speaker A:And there's a big difference between writing a novel or writing short stories as a 12, 13 year old and writing a novel of 80,000 words, 100,000 words.
Speaker A:I didn't have the discipline that's required.
Speaker A:I mean, who does at 13?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And then it was something that got parked.
Speaker A:I guess I was always a reader.
Speaker A:But then, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years ago, I thought, you know what, let's give it a real go.
Speaker A:And I think the first couple of short stories were terrible.
Speaker A:And then like anything, you just keep working at it and you read a lot and you learn from reading and you learn what to do and what not to do.
Speaker A:And then you slowly, you slowly figure out the stories that you want to tell.
Speaker A:Because I think that's the other thing.
Speaker A:You can learn to write and write reasonably well, but the trick is to write in your own voice.
Speaker A:And I think that took a long time for me because I was so enamored with other writers, I thought, well, I have to write like them.
Speaker A:I think probably the biggest one was Elmo Leonard.
Speaker A:When I was first starting out, a lot of people have said, oh, your dialogue is, is, you know, is really strong and sounds great and it sings.
Speaker A:And I said, well, that's just Elmo Leonard.
Speaker A:I learned from, I learned from the best.
Speaker A:And I think if, if people are going to accuse you of, oh, well, you sound like Elmo Leonard.
Speaker A:It's like if you play the trumpet and someone says, well, you just sound like Miles Davis.
Speaker A:I said, stop, I'll take it.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I was going to say if I got either one of those compliments, I would be the happiest guy in town.
Speaker B:Now here's the interesting thing.
Speaker B:I often make my notes and these are my notes on you.
Speaker B:I make, I make my note.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker B:I And I, there's two things.
Speaker B:I, I make my notes and then I have to go back and type them because I can't read my handwriting.
Speaker B:But right down here, and I'm going to give you a blurb.
Speaker B:I, I, I'm just started doing this on books that I really like.
Speaker B:If Elmore Leonard and Don Winslow co wrote Heat meets Den of Thieves, you would have dark neon dirt.
Speaker A:I'll take it.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean, Don Winslow, I was going to mention his name because he's another one who, I think I discovered him around the time of Savages, which is really when he started to pop off.
Speaker A:But obviously he'd been writing, you know, like a lot of overnight successes.
Speaker A:He'd been doing it for, for many years before then.
Speaker A:But yeah, there's something about not necessarily his dialogue, which is great.
Speaker A:But for me, what I took from Don Winslow was just the brevity of style and it's similar to Elmore Leonard.
Speaker A:When I was reading them and thinking about how I wanted to write.
Speaker A:You read guys like that and you realize like, wow, you can just do certain things because they've done them and you don't.
Speaker A:And you don't have to dance around with adjectives and adverbs and all this sort of stuff.
Speaker A:You can just boom, boom, boom, just write in a really punchy way.
Speaker A:And I think that's probably still come through because a lot of people have said, mentioned Don Winslow as a comparison and again, I'll absolutely take that.
Speaker B:Well, dude, I don't think I have compared any writers on this show to Don Winslow.
Speaker B:Don Winslow, I'm very grateful to say he's become a good friend.
Speaker B:He lives about an hour from here.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:He's in, yeah, he's in San Diego, isn't he?
Speaker B:And Julian, we struck up a conversation and a friendship conversation at a book signing years ago.
Speaker B:I went then I followed him to every book signing and somehow we just connected.
Speaker B:Went out to lunch and we've been friends ever since.
Speaker B:And he is pro, in my, in my opinion, for what it's worth, one of the best writers of the 21st century.
Speaker B:And when I was reading your work and I'm an enormous Elmore Leonard fan, back to 52 pickup or even earlier than that.
Speaker B:And I thought this cat's got that kind of thoroughbred status woven through him and that, that brevity and punchiness is what makes this book sing like a opera Mama Jamaica mama jam.
Speaker B:I was thinking that very similarly, right now you're writing the fact that you're A debut author.
Speaker B:Now, when I say debut, you're a debut novelist.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:But your writing far exceeds your time in this business because I have read, as you have known, listening to the show where, let's see.
Speaker B:Oh, as I say this, our show hits the fourth year next week, and I have not read a debut book like this in those four years.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:That's the most flattering thing anyone's said about my book so far.
Speaker A:I'm not sure, I'm quite sure what to say.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:I think it was just one of those things where I worked at it.
Speaker A: un Honey, that was the end of: Speaker A:And because publishing moves at the speed that it does, it didn't come out until earlier March this year.
Speaker A:So I had a good year and a bit.
Speaker A:And even then I was still tinkering with little words.
Speaker A:You know, I can sharpen this, I can do this, I can do that.
Speaker A:And Ron, bless him, at a certain point he just had to say, look, stop, leave it.
Speaker A:It's got to go to print.
Speaker A:And he said, when we're done, you get one more look at it.
Speaker A:But just trust the process.
Speaker A:And I think, and I guess a lot of authors will tell you the same thing, you can over cook something.
Speaker A:You can overdo it in terms of the edits, because at a certain point I was saying, well, what if we took the.
Speaker A:Out of this sentence or things like that?
Speaker A:But yeah, that was very much by design.
Speaker A:So, yeah, when I.
Speaker A:When people like you tell me things like that and other reviews and readers have come back to me and said, you know, they're really blown away by it, obviously, that's, you know, that's very gratifying.
Speaker B:Well, I'm not done yet.
Speaker A:Keep going, keep going.
Speaker A:This is great.
Speaker B:This is what I.
Speaker B:These are.
Speaker B:Some of, these are some of my notes.
Speaker B:Your myriad of references is stunning.
Speaker B:I mean, you have clearly been quite the student of American culture and trends because it shows in every single paragraph.
Speaker B:Your reference to iconic movies, iconic songs, TV shows, colloquialisms are spot on and deftly inserted without distraction because they feel more like habits without drawing attention.
Speaker B:And I think that may be your biggest gift.
Speaker B:The way that you can get in there, you can tell that you've drafted it and then cut out all the nonsense or the, the pieces that don't matter because it is so.
Speaker B:It is so minimalistic.
Speaker B:It's still clocking at 300 pages, which is, to me, the kind of the perfect length.
Speaker B:But it is so sparse, but gritty and dark, but then light and heart.
Speaker B:I mean, the way you are able to do that juggling, whether you want to say juggle or spin plates, either one works.
Speaker B:You do it with such reckless abandon and I'm just so stinking impressed.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker A:I think that's the.
Speaker A:That's the.
Speaker A:That's the magic trick.
Speaker A:As an author, you want to work really hard at something and have it seem natural or effortless.
Speaker A:I suppose so.
Speaker A:I know when people and myself and other authors, when someone comes to you and says, oh, this book was great, I read it overnight, I just couldn't put it down.
Speaker A:Part of you just thinks, oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker A:And then another part of you, if you're honest, is, oh, I spent sometimes up to years working on that book.
Speaker A:And you just dash through it in one night.
Speaker A:So it's a bit of a catch 22, I suppose.
Speaker A:But I think if people are enjoying it, and I mean the thing about the references, and a lot of people have mentioned that, because, as you can probably tell, I'm not American, but I grew up very much absorbed and drowning in US culture, I suppose, films and TV authors.
Speaker A:We mentioned Elmore Leonard, obviously a lot of Stephen King before that, because that's the rules.
Speaker A:If you're.
Speaker A:If you're a child of the 80s and the early 90s, you have to read Stephen King.
Speaker A:That's just how it is.
Speaker A:And I think, yeah, I just absorbed all of that and what you mentioned about, it's all there, but you try not to overdo it.
Speaker A:I mean, this book, it's around, like you said, 300 pages.
Speaker A:It's round about 75,000 words.
Speaker A:The first draft was closer to 85, 86.
Speaker A:And then gradually I took things out because they didn't need to be there.
Speaker B:Essentially didn't push it story forward.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:It's like that Hemingway iceberg theory, I don't know if you've heard of that, where he talks about, well, you see the tip of the iceberg, but 80, 90, 95% of it is below the surface and you can't see it, but you know it's there and you just instinctively know it's there.
Speaker A:And he applied that to his writing.
Speaker A:He said, if you know enough what's going on with the characters and the story, you don't have to show everything because it's implicit and the reader, if they're really following it, will.
Speaker A:Will pick up on all of that.
Speaker A:So I think that's a similar thing to what I've tried to do.
Speaker B:I think that you, you have to give your reader credit for knowing what the heck they're doing now.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I, I've always, I've always done that.
Speaker A:I mean, I, I, I try and write for a smart reader, essentially.
Speaker B:Mission accomplished.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Here.
Speaker B:Here I am, page 9 by page 10.
Speaker B:I'm starting to highlight.
Speaker B:I keep highlighting.
Speaker B:Yeah, I highlight until I finally went, okay, the fluorescent yellow is overtaking the white page.
Speaker B:But if you don't mind, I'm gonna just, you know, here's little lines that don't mean anything, but I'm saving it for a big crescendo here.
Speaker B:So guy says, still waiting.
Speaker B:You want the preliminaries?
Speaker B:I'm Will Smith, baby.
Speaker B:All ears.
Speaker B:Clever, quiet, easy.
Speaker B:Everyone gets it.
Speaker B:Instantly, all they saw was the crew wearing hockey mask.
Speaker B:Zero points for originality.
Speaker B:Every bozo watches Heat, and then they want to dress the part.
Speaker B:The one by the door, he was popped with a guard service weapon.
Speaker B:The other two were taken out by a second shooter.
Speaker B:We figure has to be the missing guy.
Speaker B:You tell me so much and so little.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker A:Okay, yeah, that Heat reference was different.
Speaker A:I remember definitely putting that in there and thinking, it's almost like me as the author making a metafictional point that.
Speaker A:I mean, he said, every bozo watches Heat and they want to dress the part because I think my book is.
Speaker A:I mean, anyone who's read it will think, oh, okay, this guy's seen Heat and loves Heat.
Speaker A:Because that was definitely the starting off point.
Speaker A:I thought, I want to write an LA crime saga type of novel.
Speaker A:And again, it's like Miles Davis with the trumpet.
Speaker A:You just cannot get around Heat when it comes to that sort of story.
Speaker A:So rather than pretend that the film Heat does not exist in the world of the book, I tackled it directly.
Speaker A:But again, I tried not to overdo it, but it was there.
Speaker B:But see, you did it in just enough in one paragraph that we already know.
Speaker B:Okay, we know Thomas is a fan of Heat.
Speaker B:He gave a little nod to the folks, to Pacino and Dinero, and then he moved on.
Speaker B:Much like.
Speaker B:There's another scene that reminds me of Den of Thieves with Gerard Butler.
Speaker B:One of my favorite movies of all time, and much better than the den of Thieves 2.
Speaker B:By the way, the soundtrack by Cliff Martinez I listened to probably 20 to 30 times a week when I'm writing.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I kid you not, because that's the perfect combination of rhythm and crescendo.
Speaker A:Did he do you?
Speaker A:Talking about the SoundTrack to the first one or the second one?
Speaker B:The first one for sure.
Speaker B:I don't know about the second one.
Speaker B:And he's also the guy who did Drive.
Speaker A:Drive, yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, drive was another.
Speaker A:Definitely another influence on.
Speaker A:On this book.
Speaker A:I'm actually talking about my book, but in terms of influences and references, they.
Speaker A:They actually probably more on the.
Speaker A:On the film side of things, it sounds like.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Dude, I gotta.
Speaker B:I gotta tell you something.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:There is.
Speaker B:I can sit here and.
Speaker B:We don't have enough time.
Speaker B:I could rattle off.
Speaker B:I mean, here's what came to mind.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Heat, den of Thieves.
Speaker B:One and two more.
Speaker B:One, then two.
Speaker B:Drive.
Speaker B:The other WinF movie about the preacher, I.
Speaker B:I can't pull it up right now.
Speaker B:There's a couple of.
Speaker B:One.
Speaker B:One with Ryan Golin as the motorcycle rider in the circus beyond the Pines.
Speaker A:Yeah, Love pines.
Speaker B:Love the show.
Speaker B:I mean, this just drips with that noir ambiance.
Speaker B:There's a sound bite right there.
Speaker B:All right, I want to jump to something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I had to catch myself stopping, but when I got to a scene, had had just enough, then smattered it with a punch.
Speaker B:Dialogue.
Speaker B:In fact, I think dialogue is your mastercraft.
Speaker B:I'm going to go to that page.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:163.
Speaker B:Folks, listen to this.
Speaker B:If you'll bear with me as I geek out over my new friend.
Speaker B:I'm going to give you more of the paragraph, but there's a line inside here and I want to see if you catch it.
Speaker B:I read this thing three times.
Speaker B:I had to stop and I go, dang, I like that sentence.
Speaker B:That's how geeked out I get.
Speaker B:Just outside of San Bernardino, where the suburban sprawl of Los Angeles finally yields to desert.
Speaker B:Wind pulls off the road at a Denny's for some coffee.
Speaker B:Inside is the usual mix of people allured by the hot food and bright lights, families with kids at the table, young couples talking and looking at their phones, truckers that have grown roots at the counter bullshitting with a waitress, others with disintegrating lives and silent stares out the window at the passing traffic, either lost in memory or trying to forget.
Speaker B:That sentence right there.
Speaker B:Disintegrating lives and silent stares out the window at the passing traffic, either lost in memory or trying to forget.
Speaker B:That sentence tells an entire novella.
Speaker B:And then it follows up with a habit that I find myself doing constantly.
Speaker B:Let me continue.
Speaker B:He would always invent stories for the customers to pass the time in a place like this, imaging their lives and situations, something he's always done on planes, too fixating on lone cars moving along the road below, wondering if there was someone inside looking up and doing the same.
Speaker B:I can't tell you how many times I've been at a cafe, at an airport, at a park, and I see people passing, and I create this whole world of their own.
Speaker B:And that must be a writer thing.
Speaker B:But that was so, so tasty, Thomas.
Speaker A:Yeah, that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:I mean, that.
Speaker A:That part is absolutely pulled straight from my head and experience.
Speaker A:Certainly when I used to do a lot more traveling in my day job in shipping or espionage.
Speaker A:You spend a lot of time at airports and on your own waiting for planes.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:I would look down at cars and that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That whole part of it.
Speaker A:I'm really glad you picked up on that.
Speaker A:Someone else, another writer I know, he pulled that same.
Speaker A:Almost identical paragraph and said, I love this.
Speaker A:This just.
Speaker A:You could just put, you know, put this out on its own and.
Speaker A:And it tells so much in so little.
Speaker A:But, yeah, that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The line about either lost in memory or trying to forget.
Speaker B:Forget.
Speaker A:Tell you a little secret, David.
Speaker A:That was actually inspired by the Eagles song Hotel California.
Speaker A:And I told my other friend this, and only when I told him, I realized, oh, it's Hotel California.
Speaker A:And my book.
Speaker B:Some try to forget.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Some dance to remember and some dance to forget.
Speaker B:Forget.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think that is definitely where that part came from.
Speaker A:And, yeah, the rest of it is.
Speaker A:And you'll know.
Speaker A:All writers will know.
Speaker A:You sit there sometimes and you just look at people watching and you just invent stories and, you know, what are they doing?
Speaker A:Are they.
Speaker A:Is that couple breaking up?
Speaker A:What's she saying to him?
Speaker A:What's going on there?
Speaker A:And it's kind of a nosy thing that we do, isn't it?
Speaker B:I used to live in Manhattan twice.
Speaker B:The second time was in 95.
Speaker B:First time was in 95, 96.
Speaker B:And I used to.
Speaker B:This one, I really started dabbling and writing.
Speaker B:I would go to coffee shops and I would be working along, but I would purposely eavesdrop on the folks next to me, and I would pick up bits and pieces, because there's two reasons.
Speaker B:A, you can learn a lot about dialogue, by the way, if you listen to the way people talk.
Speaker B:Because we speak more in brevity and almost code simplicity.
Speaker B:We don't fill in all the blanks.
Speaker B:So I love that.
Speaker B:It's a great education.
Speaker B:Also feeds ideas that I can then weave into my story.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not stealing their ideas.
Speaker B:I'm not Eavesdropping to, you know, retain information.
Speaker B:I'm just listening for patterns.
Speaker B:I'm a big pattern guy.
Speaker B:I don't know why my brain is wired that way to listen for patterns and see it.
Speaker B:But don't you find yourself doing the same thing with homework all the time?
Speaker A:All the time.
Speaker A:It's very much like you say, you don't necessarily lift these conversations wholesale, but you'll hear certain things and the rhythms of speech and it'll jump start something of your own imagination.
Speaker A:My wife is a big eavesdropper as well.
Speaker A:She absolutely loves it.
Speaker A:I don't think she'll mind me saying this, but, um.
Speaker A:And I mean, I remember once we were on the Eurostar, it's gotta be 15 years ago, and we.
Speaker A:We listened to some lady who was, I think, talk about disintegrating lives and the way she was talking to her husband about, you know, I felt bad even listening to this.
Speaker A:But they weren't being quiet about it, shall we say.
Speaker A:And even to this day, you know, it's one of those little in jokes that couples have, you know, we'll reference that one conversation and about this woman who was from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Speaker A:I can't believe I still remember this.
Speaker A:But yeah, there's always little things like that, the nuances, I think with the dialogue, other than the cultural references and all that stuff which you highlighted before.
Speaker A:There's always.
Speaker A:Part of me always really works on the rhythm of the sentences, almost.
Speaker A:Almost as if they're music in a way.
Speaker A:So you can add words, remove words, and it will change the whole flow.
Speaker A:And I think that also ties into character as well, because the way someone will say something is not the way.
Speaker A:The way I would say a certain thing is not the way that you would say a certain thing.
Speaker A:And that really helps to build.
Speaker A:Build the characters.
Speaker A:Because I think for me, especially with.
Speaker A:Well, with all fiction, if we're talking about crime and thrillers, I'm a firm believer that it's character, character, character, because the plot is the plot.
Speaker A:And for me it's almost like just a scaffolding to get from one page to the next to the next.
Speaker A:And I mean, I worked very briefly at a nonfiction publishing house many years ago, and one of their big titles was Seven Basic Plots, I think it was called.
Speaker A:And the argument is, as you can imagine, that there are only seven stories, essentially, and all stories since the dawn of time are some version of one of those seven plots.
Speaker A:I can't remember.
Speaker A:I mean, it's the hero goes on a journey or A Stranger Comes to Town and a couple of other things and everything from Star wars to Citizen Kane, you know, it fits into.
Speaker A:Into one of those seven archetypes, I suppose.
Speaker A:So I think the trick is to.
Speaker A:To differentiate yourself within that sandbox or within that plot.
Speaker A:And I think you do that with character.
Speaker B:I wish I could impress you and pull up that reference.
Speaker B:And I know the minute we hang up, I'm going to recall it.
Speaker B:You know, it's like Aristotle or Joseph Campbell or something.
Speaker B:But we're both.
Speaker B:We're both tracking the same thing, and I.
Speaker B:And I love that idea, and it's not much different.
Speaker B:And I've only been studying this recently, and I had a conversation with a friend recently.
Speaker B:We're talking about the prolific audience for romance.
Speaker B:And when you look at romance, you know, boy meets girl, or boy meets boy, or girl meets girl or whatever that thing is, but there's like, about what, nine, maybe 10 tropes, and they all.
Speaker B:All stories are just basically moving in and around of those tropes.
Speaker B:And it's much like what you're saying, But I'm telling you, Thomas, you friggin.
Speaker B:Nailed it.
Speaker B:You nailed it.
Speaker B:This is my favorite debut book, easily of this year.
Speaker B:It's gonna be in the top three, at least since I've started the show.
Speaker B:And we're about to hit four years in one week.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:And I know how many books you read.
Speaker A:That is very high praise.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:I'm a bit speechless, actually.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And I mean it with all sincerity.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I really try to keep my.
Speaker B:I don't try to be verbose or, you know, silly, because when I read a book that I go.
Speaker B:I mean, I remember the.
Speaker B:Let me see, Let me do this Wednesday's Quiet.
Speaker B:He doesn't look like much.
Speaker B:And now the two guys sitting across the table are wondering if he's ready to take down an armored truck.
Speaker B:You could stop right there and go, okay, what is about to happen?
Speaker B:And then it just gets better and better and better.
Speaker B:And I love the way that you have this.
Speaker B:It's like I thought of tennis.
Speaker B:It's like you're volleying back between Thomas and Wynn.
Speaker B:You're going back and forth, and it's two different POVs.
Speaker B:And I love.
Speaker B:I didn't even know I liked that style so much until I.
Speaker B:I've read a couple of other books, but this one really jumps out at me, like, so you get his viewpoint of his world.
Speaker B:And of course, this guy and the world around him and balls that.
Speaker B:But then you get this voice of this guy in his world and it's so deftly done.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's always tricky to pull those types of stories.
Speaker A:I've got a writer friend who calls it an arrow book or an arrow structure where you have the two plots running parallel but then starting to converge.
Speaker A:Starting to converge.
Speaker A:And I mean without any spoilers for my book.
Speaker A:Once they meet and I've had a couple of readers get in touch with me and said oh, that one chapter where it becomes.
Speaker A:I'm trying very hard not to spoil it but once they essentially converge, they said oh wow.
Speaker A:That was, you know, that was the bit that was the part of the book where I just, you know, fist pumped and you know that was, that was, that was it for them.
Speaker A:And that was definitely by design from me.
Speaker B:So it goes into booster rockets at that point.
Speaker B:You know, it's you, you kind of know it's coming.
Speaker B:But that, that scene where they happen upon one another, we'll leave it at that.
Speaker B:And I'm like oh shit, here we go.
Speaker B:And then it just.
Speaker B:And it's like off to the friggin races.
Speaker B:And I cannot say enough as we get to wrap because we're going to have to bounce here.
Speaker B:We're.
Speaker B:We're a little bit over time but I want to know what's in the works next.
Speaker B:Is there a sequel?
Speaker B:Is there different spin?
Speaker B:Is there a TV series?
Speaker B:Is there a film?
Speaker B:Talk to me, Thomas.
Speaker A:I mean next for me in terms of the novels.
Speaker A:I've got a science fiction project that's coming up soon.
Speaker A:The publisher keeps pushing me to finish but I'm a bit slow and steady and careful and as he's mentioned in terms of the detail and having that writing style which is rich and full of illusions and references to things.
Speaker A:That becomes a lot harder when you're setting a book several hundred years in the future in space.
Speaker A:But I like to think it's almost like dark neon dirt but in space.
Speaker A:It's very similar in terms of the style and the language and it is science fiction, but I'd say it's like a crime thriller, political espionage type of thing.
Speaker A:But yeah, set, set, set in.
Speaker A:Set in.
Speaker A:In the far future, shall we say, in terms of a sequel.
Speaker A:Again, without spoiling anything, I think this one has, has an ending which I don't know, some people think that it's a little bit more ambiguous or open to continue depending on.
Speaker A:I guess it also depends on what the reader brings to the Table.
Speaker B:You instill in me a desire.
Speaker B:I'm one of those guys that, in case nobody knows this about me, I'm not a big fan of rules.
Speaker B:I'm not big on following rules.
Speaker B:Probably my upbringing.
Speaker A:I never would have guessed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm an entrepreneur by spirit.
Speaker B:But not by bank account.
Speaker B:Because if it was by bank account, there's about a half dozen books I've read this year that I would grab, snag the rights to, and then do everything I could to put it into development as either a TV series or a film.
Speaker B:Because I am, as you know, a filmmaker, closet filmmaker.
Speaker B:I mean, I have done.
Speaker B:Have done a film in the past.
Speaker B:God, I'd love to grab my.
Speaker B:Get my hands on this.
Speaker B:And if I could afford it, I would buy their rights.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, a lot of people have said the same thing.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:It's obviously the setting and the story and the dialogue.
Speaker A:It's really all there, so.
Speaker A:From your lips to God's ears.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:May she listen closely.
Speaker B:I do want to say.
Speaker B:And I'm going to sound like I'm patting myself on the back.
Speaker B:I don't mean that.
Speaker B:But I remember when I read Don Winslow's selection of short stories, I believe it was called Broken.
Speaker B:There was one.
Speaker B:When I was reading it, there were two of my favorites, but one, it burned a hole through my brain.
Speaker B:And I said to him, I'm like, if I had the money, I would snatch the rights to this because it has to be a movie.
Speaker B:And wouldn't you know of.
Speaker A:Is it crime 101?
Speaker B:It's crime 101.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah, I knew.
Speaker A:I mean, that story.
Speaker A:I was talking about it with someone earlier because it was a review of my book, and it was very kind and thoughtful.
Speaker A:And they mentioned, you know, all.
Speaker A:You know, the Elmo, Leonard, the Heat.
Speaker A:But they mentioned specifically crime 101.
Speaker A:I said yes, because that.
Speaker A:That really was one of the.
Speaker A:It was definitely the best thing in that collection.
Speaker A:And it was one of the best things that Don Winslow's ever written, which is saying something.
Speaker B:So I could not agree more.
Speaker B:It was the best.
Speaker B:It is handcrafted for a film.
Speaker B:It was the perfect length.
Speaker B:You got everything you wanted in the story, of course, then you walked away and go, oh, man.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:I want to say, like 180 pages maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe not even that.
Speaker A:And I was like, everything was short.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It just like, oh, God.
Speaker B:Anyway, and so it got picked up, and I would impress you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It got picked up.
Speaker B:Oh, it's in product.
Speaker B:Matter of fact, hold on a second now.
Speaker B:I've got to do this.
Speaker B:Crime 101 in production.
Speaker B:I can do this because it's my show.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:Ladies and gentlemen, crime 101 is an upcoming crime fiction directed by Bart Layton, who co wrote the screenplay with Peter Strawn.
Speaker B:Straw.
Speaker B:And it is an adaptation of Don Winslow Novella crime 101 stars.
Speaker B:Check this out, my friend.
Speaker B:Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Barry Kilgan, Halle Berry and Monica Barbaro.
Speaker B:Jennifer Jason Lee.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker B:Nick Nolte, Tate Donovan.
Speaker B:I mean, come on.
Speaker A:Did you say Barry Kogan was in there?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Dude, I'm telling you, it's going to make so much money.
Speaker B:And my good friend Shane Salerno at the Story Factory put that deal together.
Speaker B:Big surprise there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, okay, listen, I got to wrap it up.
Speaker B:I do have one last question.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:What do I always close the show with?
Speaker A:Rising Advance.
Speaker B:That's three words.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Best writing advice.
Speaker B:Do you have any for.
Speaker B:I mean, I know you're brand new.
Speaker B:Ish.
Speaker B:You have several short stories which we didn't even cover, but we will another time.
Speaker B:This is your day.
Speaker B:What have you learned in your years of fine writing, young man?
Speaker A:Well, one of the things that I picked up, and I think it.
Speaker A:I wish I could remember who said this.
Speaker A:And if they ever hear this, please let me know because I definitely want.
Speaker A:This is not an original idea from my head and it is more to do with screenplays.
Speaker A:But they were saying that, you know, with any genre thing.
Speaker A:And it goes back to what I was saying about characters.
Speaker A:You can't rely on the genre thing.
Speaker A:So the alien, the monster, whatever, to provide all the conflict and the drama.
Speaker A:You need something there to.
Speaker A:So that the genre thing will just, like you mentioned, would just be like a turbo boost to an unfolding conflict already.
Speaker A:I think the example they used was Die Hard, which we think of as one of the greatest action films of all time.
Speaker A:But they said, actually if you look at Die Hard, how does it open?
Speaker A:It's a story about a couple and the woman's moved to Los Angeles.
Speaker A:And the Bruce Willis character, I mean, he's a New York guy through and through.
Speaker A:And so it's actually a story about their disintegrating marriage.
Speaker A:There's like an inequality between them in terms of their earning power and so forth.
Speaker A:And she's relocating and he's anxious about the whole thing.
Speaker A: ble in Los angeles with these: Speaker A:And so you think, right, just in that encapsulated bit, it's a conflict about marital drama, but then Hans Gruber shows up and boom, we're in Die Hard.
Speaker A:And I think you can apply that to a lot of other action films if they're successful.
Speaker A:There's always something else that is there before the.
Speaker A:The terrorist or the alien or whatever shows up to kick the story up a notch.
Speaker A:So I think that's always.
Speaker A:I mean, it's certainly advice that I always tell myself.
Speaker A:I think with my book it's slightly different because it opens with a bang, but then you have to gradually filter in the characters and why we should care about them and why we should feel invested in them as the story goes along.
Speaker A:So I think that's probably the one thing, especially if you're writing crime fiction or thrillers.
Speaker A:And again, it goes back to that thing about, well, there's only so many amount of plots, so, you know, you have to do something to help your book stand out.
Speaker A:And I think that's probably.
Speaker A:That's probably it.
Speaker B:Well, you said a magic piece right there.
Speaker B:It's all about the characters.
Speaker B:If I am involved and engaged, engaged, I can be for or against.
Speaker B:I can love or I can hate.
Speaker B:I can love and hate simultaneously.
Speaker B:I can be frustrated.
Speaker B:But if I am engaged with the characters first and foremost, regardless of anything else, whether it's style or length or cover or whatever bullshit else is out there, I'm in.
Speaker B:And that's the way it should be.
Speaker A:Just to piggyback on it, I don't believe in that thing where the protagonists or your characters have to be likable.
Speaker A:I don't find that's true at all.
Speaker A:I think, I mean, in my book you've got a bad guy who's kind of likable, and you've got the good guy who's actually more of a bad guy.
Speaker A:And, you know, people have said, oh, I, you know, I read this book and I wasn't sure how to feel about this guy.
Speaker A:He was good, then he was bad.
Speaker A:And, you know.
Speaker A:But I think as long as you're engaged, that's.
Speaker A:That's the key thing.
Speaker B:Well, folks, don't.
Speaker B:Don't forget the fact that there are people in power.
Speaker B:I'm just going to use that as a generic phrase.
Speaker B:You may like that particular person in power or you may not.
Speaker B:You may agree with that particular person in power or you may not.
Speaker B:I'm not going to get into politics.
Speaker B:I make it a rule not to do that.
Speaker B:You could think he's an a hole.
Speaker B:You could think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Speaker B:But it comes down to, are you engaged with the person?
Speaker B:Are you following the story?
Speaker B:Anyway, point made.
Speaker B:Hey, one quick thing, folks.
Speaker B:I got to tell you this story because it's one of the things that really made a difference and drew my attention to Mr.
Speaker B:Thomas trying here.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And again, I'm not tooting my horn.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It's something that happened.
Speaker B:And I want to share this story with you.
Speaker B:And I'm going to say it as though Thomas isn't sitting there.
Speaker B:This is when, you know somebody is serious about their work.
Speaker B:So I was.
Speaker B:I got the book, I started reading.
Speaker B:I knew I was in.
Speaker B:I went to his website.
Speaker B:I found the website.
Speaker B:It was a piece of shite.
Speaker B:I mean, it was just crap.
Speaker A:Guilty as Chubbs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then I went to get his email address, and I'm like, oh, Jesus, his email address is not even his name.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, what the frick?
Speaker B:So unbeknownst to him, and I took a chance on doing this, I mean.
Speaker B:Cause he could sit, look, and be, you know, who do you think you are, Temple?
Speaker B:But I wrote him an email.
Speaker B:I carved out a bit of time on my weekend to do this.
Speaker B:And I'm like, hey, Thomas, I know we don't know each other.
Speaker B:You're going to be on the show.
Speaker B:Just a couple things.
Speaker B:Your website sucks.
Speaker B:And then I said, hey, here's a website company I just learned about.
Speaker B:It's not expensive.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:You can build it in a flash, Literally.
Speaker B:And not flash code, but flash fast.
Speaker B:And ps, get rid of that frigging email they send you to your publisher.
Speaker B:No, it's not shotgun, honey.
Speaker B:It's somebody else.
Speaker B:And here's a suggestion, folks.
Speaker B:Not only did he rebuild the website, sign up an email account, he did it in 24 hours.
Speaker B:The next day, he said, hey, check this out.
Speaker B:Boom, it was done.
Speaker B:I was so impressed with that because a lot of times people ask me advice, David, what kind of microphone do I need?
Speaker B:What kind of light do I need?
Speaker B:You know, how do I do I get a piece of equipment to make myself sound better or whatever, and I'll sit there, I'll spend notes and an hour crafting stuff, and they'll never do anything.
Speaker B:But the fact that you took that advice did.
Speaker B:It just told me so much about you.
Speaker B:So all of that is to say kudos to you.
Speaker B:Not to me, but to you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:No, I mean, it's I'm always willing to listen to advice.
Speaker A:It doesn't necessarily mean I'll follow it.
Speaker A:But when.
Speaker A:I mean, I knew the website that I had wasn't the greatest.
Speaker A:It's not my area of expertise.
Speaker A:Obviously, I'm a writer.
Speaker A:I'm not a web designer or a marketer or any of that stuff.
Speaker A:And I think until recently, certainly until I was a published author, I just thought, oh, well, I'll worry about that.
Speaker A:You know, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Speaker A:And then wouldn't you know, I came to the bridge and I was still.
Speaker A:Still on the same shitty website.
Speaker A:And you said, look, and you're very polite, more than you needed to be.
Speaker A:You said, like, tell me if I'm talking out of turn.
Speaker A:And I said, look, David, I know the website's not the greatest, and it was just the kick in the pants that I needed.
Speaker A:And you're right, it was actually a lot easier than I.
Speaker A:Than I thought it would be to.
Speaker A:To clean up and have it looking very slick and professional.
Speaker A:Thomastrang.com so it's all.
Speaker A:It's all there.
Speaker A:You can sign up for, get in touch with me.
Speaker A:There's all my books, different stories, different interviews and things of that nature that I've done.
Speaker A:So it's all there in the one slick, snazzy place.
Speaker B:And how about that email service?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's perfect.
Speaker A:So that goes.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's a contact page on the website, and it goes straight to the new address.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's highly secure.
Speaker B:They're based out of Switzerland.
Speaker B:Anyway, I was gonna say.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna rain on anybody's parade.
Speaker B:When I first came out as an author, I hired this particular company, and they were a sponsor for a short while.
Speaker B:It was very expensive.
Speaker B:They're nice people.
Speaker B:They really are.
Speaker B:You don't need to drop that kind of cash for a website.
Speaker B:And honestly, if you ever want to know, as a listener what to do, contact me.
Speaker B:I'll help you out.
Speaker B:And I'm not getting any kickbacks from this anyway.
Speaker B:Thomas Trying.
Speaker B:I cannot say enough nice things.
Speaker B:Dark Neon Dirt is the book.
Speaker B:It is riveting.
Speaker B:This is a book, folks, you have got to buy.
Speaker B:I know I'm late to the party.
Speaker B:I say that often.
Speaker B:I heard about this in March.
Speaker B:I just happened to be stacked.
Speaker B:I got a few things going on in my life, and I'm sorry I'm late to the game.
Speaker B:But, boy, am I glad I'm there.
Speaker B:Because as Nick Kolakowski, mutual friend here Says fast and smooth and incredible heist novel.
Speaker B:You're going to want to pick this up and read it.
Speaker B:And if you ever want to do a audiobook, count me in, because I would be honored to jump on that board.
Speaker A:And I am thinking about an audiobook.
Speaker A:My wife has been on my case about it because she only read the book probably about the same time that you did, David.
Speaker A:She only read it when it was available in paperback.
Speaker A:And a couple of other writers I know, I've mentioned that, and they said, wait, your wife never read it before it was published?
Speaker A:I said, no, it's crime fiction.
Speaker A:It's not really her thing.
Speaker A:They were shocked.
Speaker A:They said, my wife wouldn't even let me leave the house without a shopping list that was approved by her.
Speaker A:And it wasn't until she started reading it that I thought, I'm actually quite anxious that she'll enjoy it.
Speaker A:And she did, thankfully.
Speaker A:And she's not one to.
Speaker A:If she didn't like it, she wouldn't mince words.
Speaker A:Again, it came down to the characters, I think, because she thought, it's a crime thriller.
Speaker A:There'll be explosions and ninjas jumping out of bushes and all this sort of stuff.
Speaker A:And there.
Speaker A:There is an element of that, but it.
Speaker A:It comes down to the characters, and there's romance, too.
Speaker B:So, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker B:You get it all, folks.
Speaker B:In 300 pages, which is.
Speaker B:I'll tell you, Phillips is.
Speaker B:He's nailing it.
Speaker B:Get him on the show, for crying out loud.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's a perfect book.
Speaker B:There's not a wasted bit in there.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Want to learn more?
Speaker B:As you just heard from him, and he beat me, too.
Speaker B:@thomas trang.com.
Speaker B:thomas, please tell me you'll come back on the show again.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I had great fun.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Was that right?
Speaker B:Well, you haven't read the book yet, but you will.
Speaker B:Dark neon dirt.
Speaker B:You're gonna read it.
Speaker B:Thanks, Thomas.
Speaker B:I think I got a new buddy.
Speaker B:Folks, welcome to June, and guess what?
Speaker B:We launch season nine, that's next week, with one of my favorite authors.
Speaker B:The beautiful, the talented, the lovely, the charming.
Speaker B:She is a master craftsperson.
Speaker B:Megan Abbott, El Dorado Drive.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Did you read the turnout?
Speaker B:Did you read any of her stuff?
Speaker B:People cannot say enough nice things.
Speaker B:Me either.
Speaker B:Megan Abbott is a hell of a writer.
Speaker B:There's some inside scoop on this particular book that you're going to want to hear about.
Speaker B:You may not have heard it anywhere else, but you're going to hear it on the Thriller Zone, your number one podcast for thriller fiction.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Join us next week as we kick off season nine of the Thriller Zone.
Speaker B:I'm gonna scoot out of here.
Speaker B:I'm talk to you next time for another edition of the Thriller Zone.
