From Patrols to Prose: How Adam Plantinga Blends Cop Life with Thrilling Reads
Welcome to the 235th episode of The Thriller Zone with Dave Temple. Get ready to dive into the thrilling world of Adam Plantinga, whose latest book, *Hard Town*, promises to keep you on the edge of your seat!
Right off the bat, we’re unpacking the gritty reality of policing, which Plantinga knows all too well after 24 years on the job. He shares some surprising insights about human nature and the hectic life of a street cop that’ll make you rethink everything you thought you knew from the movies.
We chat about Adam's journey from the police beat to penning captivating thrillers, with plenty of laughs and some serious moments sprinkled in.
So, grab your favorite drink, settle in, and join us as we explore the wild ride of writing and the fascinating tales that come from the front lines of law enforcement on your #1 Podcast For Thriller Fiction, Film & TV...TheThrillerZone.com!
Takeaways:
- In this episode, we chat with Adam Plantiga about his book 'Hard Town', which takes readers on a thrilling ride through unexpected twists.
- Adam shares insights about police work that challenge common perceptions, revealing the complexities faced by street cops every day.
- We dive into the importance of realistic depictions of violence in thrillers and how it affects storytelling with genuine consequences.
- The conversation highlights Adam's evolution as a writer, sharing invaluable lessons learned from his journey in crafting compelling narratives.
- Listeners will discover how humor plays a role even in serious discussions about policing and the intricacies of human nature.
- We also touch on the collaborative nature of writing, including how feedback from editors shapes the final product of a novel.
Links referenced in this episode: adamplantinga.com
People and companies mentioned in this episode:
- Universal
- Adam Plantinga
- Harlan Coben
- Gregg Hurwitz
- Meg Gardner
- Nick Petrie
- Joseph Finder
- Jeffrey Deaver
- Rachel Howzell Hall
- Bruce Borgos
- Jay Bell
- Jack Stewart
ARE YOU NEW TO THE THRILLER ZONE?
Host and former radio star David "Dave" Temple interviews the biggest, brightest, and best thriller writers of thriller fiction, thriller and mystery films, thriller and suspense television, and more. With four years on the podcast, nearly 25 years of radio experience, and another 15 years as an actor and voiceover narrator, Dave has the credibility required to access and interview the very best and New York Times bestselling authors in the world. Tune in each week as he breaks down the magic, or the "secret sauce" of his guests. During his segment called "Best Writing Advice," Dave's audience learns the very best insights to what makes a super successful thriller fiction writer.
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Keywords: podcast episode, Adam Plantinga interview, Hard Town book, thriller fiction, police insights, law enforcement stories, writing thrillers, character development, realistic fight scenes, street cop experiences, crime fiction, author interviews, police realism, storytelling techniques, suspenseful narratives, writing advice, thriller genre, police procedures, author experiences, storytelling in fiction, thethrillerzone.com
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Guess who?
Speaker A:Dave Temple here, your host.
Speaker A:So glad you're here.
Speaker A:On today's show, 236, I believe it is.
Speaker A:Adam Plantiga is here with a book called Hardtown.
Speaker A:This is one of those books that you pick up and you think, oh, this is going to be a nice little slow boiler.
Speaker A:And then it gives you something more.
Speaker A:I could talk about it, but I really do it a lot of justice inside the show.
Speaker A:So why don't you and I get together and welcome Adam, right here on the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:First of all, welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Nice to see you here.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker B:I have been listening to your podcast and really enjoying it because I don't.
Speaker A:Remember exactly where we picked up because we were doing some chit chat in the green room.
Speaker A:It was about a year ago, a year and a half ago.
Speaker A:I got your book.
Speaker A:It was the Ascent.
Speaker A:I remember the book cover vividly because it reminded me of Joseph Finder and kind of Jeffrey Deaver.
Speaker A:They always have magnificent covers.
Speaker A:And you know, I'm kind of a horror for a nice cover.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that came down the pike and I went, wow.
Speaker A:And then I read just this week and I feel like I'm late to the party on this.
Speaker A:But that's okay.
Speaker A:Cause it happens every once in a while.
Speaker A:You got picked up with an option by Universal for tv.
Speaker A:How cool is that?
Speaker B:Oh, it was.
Speaker B:It was fantastic.
Speaker B:And the best part was, you know, my agent did all the work while I just sat in the corner and made sarcastic comments, which is an arrangement I'm very comfortable with.
Speaker A:And then this morning as I was getting ready to get up early, walk the dog, hang out with my wife, I pick up.
Speaker A:You were so kind to send me a copy in PDF form of these 400 Things Cops Know folks do.
Speaker A:Do yourself a favor, we're going to talk about this in a second.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Just stop what you're doing sometime between now and the end of the show and go pick up this 400 things cops know by Adam street smart lessons from a veteran patrolman.
Speaker A:Of course you're going to order this little bad boy at the same time.
Speaker A:Hardtown.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:You're going to put love towards your friend Adam here.
Speaker A:I learned so many inside scoops, things I thought I knew.
Speaker A:And I've.
Speaker A:You've probably heard this a hundred times, so forgive me for my stupidity, but I'm like, I watch a lot of tv, I thought I knew all this stuff.
Speaker A:And you kept referencing.
Speaker A:You probably saw this in television and it blew me out of the water, dude.
Speaker B:There's so much about the job that I think people don't quite understand, and there's no reason for them to unless they're doing ride alongs or unless they're in the car.
Speaker B:So I wanted to sort of unpack some of that.
Speaker B:I thought, or my hope was that people would find that interesting.
Speaker A:Well, now there's a couple things I Learned.
Speaker A:You've been 23 years.
Speaker A:23.
Speaker A:24 years as a cop, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, about 24 years.
Speaker A:Okay, so 7ish in Milwaukee PD and then San Francisco.
Speaker A:16.
Speaker A:And San Francisco is one of my favorite cities of all time.
Speaker A:That's where I met my wife.
Speaker A:I mean, that's where she's from.
Speaker A:And I thought, man, if I could.
Speaker A:Next time up in San Francisco, do you live in city proper or on the outskirts?
Speaker B:I'm on the outskirts in the East Bay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Well, if I'm.
Speaker A:Next time I'm up there, I'm going to ring you, we're going to go out for a cup of coffee, and I'd love to do a ride along with you.
Speaker A:That would be so.
Speaker A:It's fun.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker A:God, that would be fun.
Speaker A:All right, first of all, let me say this couple things.
Speaker A:I'm gonna split the conversation.
Speaker A:And you got, you got enough.
Speaker A:You got like a half hour.
Speaker A:You got time, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, you bet.
Speaker A:Okay, I'm gonna do about half of you as a cop, half of you as an author, because I'm fascinated by both sides.
Speaker A:I've never seen anyone climb so fast with publishing.
Speaker A:Well, maybe I've seen a few, but very few.
Speaker A:And, and, and you're writing like you've been doing this for decades, so I'm impressed.
Speaker A:One little note in here.
Speaker A:Now, he had to navigate the puzzle of how to be without her.
Speaker A:Some days he was functional.
Speaker A:On others, his grief felt like an undertow that hid in the waves and then pulled him out into the deep for some reason.
Speaker A:That was such a great line, especially the way you juxtaposed it to love.
Speaker A:And I almost drowned off the coast of Nicaragua a few years ago, and I got caught in an undertow, and it scared the bejesus out of me.
Speaker A:And so I thought about that when I read it.
Speaker A:But then I thought, wow, look at the way he juxtaposed something that could be horrific like that with love.
Speaker B:Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker B:I, I have.
Speaker B:I, I married well above my station, so that's, that's helped me, you know, I, I know what sort of Strong feelings for someone feel like and sound like.
Speaker B:So that's helped me.
Speaker B:That helps me write passages like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, what's.
Speaker A:I want to.
Speaker A:I want to drill into some of the.
Speaker A:Being a cop because I'm.
Speaker A:First of all, I have such high, high respect for you and the.
Speaker A:The job that you've chosen.
Speaker A:High respect.
Speaker A:What is you.
Speaker A:What would you say?
Speaker A:One of the most surprising things.
Speaker A:And I'm going to say what's the most.
Speaker A:But I may say what's among the most, because people often, they get freaked out when they go, well, wait a minute.
Speaker A:What's the most.
Speaker A:Most surprising thing I've learned about human nature from years in law enforcement?
Speaker A:God, there's so many.
Speaker A:So just the first one pops into your head that most civilians like me may not expect at all.
Speaker B:Hmm.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:And this is actually something that came up at a writing conference I was at just the other week, a thriller fest where we were talking about writing realistic fight scenes.
Speaker B:And what we talked about is being in an actual fight is exhausting.
Speaker B:You know, you have authors that write long fight scenes where people are punching each other in the face without a lot of ill effect.
Speaker B:But even boxers who are trained fight for three minutes and then take a break.
Speaker B:You know, if you try to hit a heavy bag, hit it for as long as you can and see how long it takes for you to become utterly gassed.
Speaker B:Most street fights are with between untrained people.
Speaker B:A lot of it resorts to sort of what.
Speaker B:What you did when you were in the fourth grade.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of slap fights.
Speaker B:And they're over pretty quickly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they're not pretty.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, one thing that.
Speaker A:When I was reading 400 Things and I'm talk.
Speaker A:I'm going back and forth between hardtown and 400 things, so just bear with me, folks.
Speaker A:But what I.
Speaker A:One thing I learned about it was interesting.
Speaker A:Everyone thought.
Speaker A:Everyone thinks when they see a bad guy run, that cops will all go running after him.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I'm going to paraphrase this.
Speaker A:At my age, this particular instance was probably you speaking.
Speaker A:If I'm gonna try to chase a guy who's half my age all the way down there, and I hope, and I hope by the time I reach him, I've got enough juice in the machine to still beat the crap out of him.
Speaker A:May or may not happen.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna let him go.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's one of those things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:You gotta leave a little something in the tank, because if you're around the corner it's just the two of you, and if you're completely spent, you're, you're going to lose that fight.
Speaker B:And as a cop, you, you may lose a fight.
Speaker A:Yeah, here's one more thing, and then I'm going to move on.
Speaker A:My wife and I watch a lot of shows now.
Speaker A:John Wick is probably not the best example of this, but I'm going to use it anyway.
Speaker A:Guns, gun, gun, gun, gun, gun.
Speaker A:Just hundreds and hundreds of bullets.
Speaker A:And John, all the guns.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, and, and John never gets hit.
Speaker A:However, then I'm reading that book this morning.
Speaker A:I'm like, I was surprised at how many times you and your cohorts, your fellow comrades in arms, would roll up on a situation and there would be all this gunfire maybe within 10, 15ft, and no one gets hit.
Speaker A:How does that happen?
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I found that fascinating.
Speaker B:Um, you know, there's some fundamentals of shooting, you know, grip and sight, alignment and stance.
Speaker B:And if you don't practice those, it's, and especially if you add stress and sort of panic into the mix, it's not difficult to miss everything you're shooting at.
Speaker B:Uh, so, you know, we, I, I, I was at a scene once where someone emptied a magazine at, at a house.
Speaker B:I mean, a target literally the size of a house and only hit it about five times.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, if you don't practice, it's amazing how inaccurate your shots can be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Well, now, now many people have strong opinions these days about policing right now, and, but most have never, as you mentioned earlier, have ever done the job rightly.
Speaker A:So what is something you wish that the public could understood about what it's really like to be a cop on the street?
Speaker A:And then we're going to move on to your book.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I think that one thing it's important for the public to know is as a street cop, you have to come to the table with a lot of skills.
Speaker B:I mean, one day you might be responding to a shooting scene, the next day, serious car collision.
Speaker B:You know, you might be talking with a member of the board of supervisors, and then you're talking to a prostitute who's been abused to a small child, and you're trying to figure out if they know the difference between a truth and a lie.
Speaker B:I mean, you have to, you have to have a pretty wide skill set because there's a lot coming at you.
Speaker B:And I don't know, I don't know if the general public sort of appreciates that kind of thing.
Speaker A:I, you you make a superb point because you have to be.
Speaker A:You have to be an enforcer, a politician, a priest, a friend, an enemy, all simultaneously.
Speaker A:And the thing that always whacks me out is the fact that you have to make split decisions in microseconds because you don't know if somebody's reaching in their pocket to pull out a phone or reaching in their pocket to pull out their ID to say I'm okay, or if they're going to pull out a gun.
Speaker A:I learned little things like if they turn to the right, they're trying, they're tending to kind of hide the gun.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But, but the, the point is, just the amount of instantaneous judgments you have to make is crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What someone described the.
Speaker B:The job sometimes is you have to be able to.
Speaker B:I mean, you're sort of in this constant state of suspicious readiness and you want to be civil with everyone you encounter, but you also have to be able to go from zero to Hulk in about three seconds.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:All right, let's talk about Kurt Argento.
Speaker A:And by the way, right here on the front, this, this caught my eye this morning.
Speaker A:Plantiga will soon join the ranks of child and Conley.
Speaker A:This is from Douglas Brunt, New York's Times best selling author.
Speaker B:That's high praise.
Speaker A:It is huge high praise.
Speaker A:And I thought of the same thing.
Speaker A:It had a very Conley feel to it.
Speaker A:Very Bosch and even pre Bosch.
Speaker A:I mean, just some real.
Speaker A:Yeah, that high accolades because you deserve it.
Speaker A:But, but tell me about your main character here and, and what makes him tick and how much of you.
Speaker A:I know this is classic, but how much of you is in him?
Speaker B:Right, so he is a ex cop from Detroit.
Speaker B:He was a street cop for most of his career, including a stint on swat.
Speaker B:He loses his wife, so he's trying to sort of sort his way through how to live without her.
Speaker B:And in the first book, the Ascent, he gets caught up in a riot in a maximum security prison.
Speaker B:And in the second book, A Hard Town, he is house sitting for a friend in a small Arizona town and mayhem ensues.
Speaker B:He's sort of a meat and potatoes guy.
Speaker B:He's not a detective, but he's able to sort of figure things out because he's tenacious and he's got good instincts.
Speaker B:We have some similarities.
Speaker B:We have a somewhat similar outlook on policing.
Speaker B:He may be a slightly better fighter than me, which is a admission I make grudgingly, but, you know, he's good with tools.
Speaker B:I can't fix anything.
Speaker B:He likes low and Brow and I don't drink.
Speaker B:I mean, that's just the sparkly magic of fiction, Dave, that I'm employing.
Speaker A:I like in the opening scene, it reminded me much.
Speaker A:I thought of Jack Reacher, so I hope that's a compliment.
Speaker B:When he.
Speaker B:Oh, for sure, yeah.
Speaker A:Rolling into town, doing his thing, having some pie, just leave me alone.
Speaker A:And these people all around him trying to, you know, pull him into the world.
Speaker A:But, you know, it.
Speaker A:The one thing I loved about this book, it was like sitting in a bar listening to war stories from a veteran cop.
Speaker A:Was that conversational?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:No BS tone, Something you.
Speaker A:You consciously crafted, or just how the stories kind of came out of you as you started writing?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's a good question, I think.
Speaker B:I mean, one of my very favorite parts about being a cop is just the conversations you have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:With some of my co workers who are some of the funniest and bravest and most insightful folks I've ever had the pleasure of hanging out with.
Speaker B:I mean, the conversations are the best and I think I just take some of that.
Speaker B:So the spirit of those conversations and it filters into my writing.
Speaker B:You know, I don't know how it couldn't.
Speaker A:That's another reason I would love to be in that drive along, because you get to see, you know, behind this.
Speaker A:Behind the curtain.
Speaker A:I'm a big behind the curtain fan.
Speaker A:And you get to see it and hear it in real time.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:Another thing I loved about this book, it's structured in these, I'd call them collection of vignettes and versus, like, what would you call it?
Speaker A:Chronological memoir.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So what informed that decision?
Speaker A:Because that's a pretty specific decision.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:And it felt different, differently than the Ascent?
Speaker A:Well, I'm safe to say that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I think with the Ascent, most of the book is set within the confines of a maximum security prison.
Speaker B:And so it's a little bit claustrophobic.
Speaker B:And with Hardtown, I just.
Speaker B:I wanted to kind of go more sort of open world, you know, go outdoors.
Speaker B:Take this.
Speaker B:Take this sucker outdoors.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I've always been fascinated by the desert.
Speaker B:Just sort of the hard, clean look of it.
Speaker B:And so I wanted to.
Speaker B:You know, they say in a book series, every entry has to be the same, but different.
Speaker B:So I wanted to.
Speaker B:I wanted to explore a little bit more with the, with the second book.
Speaker B:And that included the structure.
Speaker A:Now that just triggered a thought.
Speaker A:What have you.
Speaker A:What have you learned now in your sophomore book that you.
Speaker A:In this entire process, including Thriller Fest, which you just Attended.
Speaker A:What have you learned that you had no idea was going to be the case?
Speaker A:Like, you're like, oh, you're really surprised that blank happens in this world of writing thriller fiction?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think one of the things about writing a thriller is the story has to move and it's gotta be lean.
Speaker B:And part of my learning process has been to take out all the extra stuff to take out all the fat.
Speaker B:And I've.
Speaker B:I mean, that can be hard to do, you know, sort of the whole killing your darling thing.
Speaker B:But I've had a lot of help with that, both from my agent who reads my stuff, and my editor.
Speaker B:If you've written a passage that you're really proud of and sort of, you're sort of impressed by yourself, but it doesn't propel the story forward, just gotta go.
Speaker B:And that sometimes has been sort of a hard lesson, man.
Speaker A:I think that's probably one of two things that I have learned over my years of writing is if, and, and, and it's.
Speaker A:You put it so well, you're crafting something you like.
Speaker A:God damn this thing.
Speaker A:This sounds good.
Speaker A:And listen to that.
Speaker A:That's sexy.
Speaker B:Oh, that's, you know, but if something.
Speaker A:Yeah, look at me.
Speaker A:Oh, but if you come back.
Speaker A:I always do this.
Speaker A:I come back the second day and I re read what I wrote the day before.
Speaker A:And sometimes, like, you know, that was really cool yesterday, but it's not really moving the story forward.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's a, that's a good way to go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then you go, well, maybe I'll, I'll just, I'll leave.
Speaker A:Should I leave that?
Speaker A:No, I'll take it out, but I'll put it over here in this notebook because it's so good.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:I'll use later.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, maybe you can save it for a rainy day.
Speaker A:You know, there is a fine skill, as you very well know, in writing violence and tragedy and without being, especially these days, without being exploitative and sensational.
Speaker A:So how do you, how do you find yourself, Adam, walking that fine line between when, when turning human suffering into compelling narrative?
Speaker A:You know, because you, you, you don't want to glorify something, but you want to get the tension and anxiety and angst going.
Speaker A:How do you walk that line?
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I have talked to other writers about that, and I think the folks that I admire the most and what I try to do is when you're writing violence, it's not just violence for violence sake, it has to do a couple things.
Speaker B:It has to move the story forward.
Speaker B:It has to be consistent with the character.
Speaker B:And also, you know, the violence should have sort of real life consequences, both physically for the character.
Speaker B:You know, if he hurts his back in chapter two, then how does his back feel when he's driving over a potholed road in Chapter 4?
Speaker B:And also know violence kind of takes a toll on you.
Speaker B:It should be.
Speaker B:You know, I try to be sort of thoughtful about it.
Speaker B:Even if a good character is doing something awful to a bad character who has it coming.
Speaker B:You know, I think a little moral reflection about that is.
Speaker B:Is probably the way it should be.
Speaker A:Well, and I'm going to take it to a finer point because you have this ability to find dark humor and really pretty horrific situations without making light of the victims or.
Speaker A:Or they're paying.
Speaker A:So maybe this is the same question, but a little bit different.
Speaker A:How do you calibrate that balance as a writer?
Speaker A:And did your editor push back at any time on how far you should go?
Speaker B:Yeah, I was definitely in conversations with my editor about sort of the intensity and maybe the graphic nature of some scenes.
Speaker B:Sort of the.
Speaker B:I think the prevailing philosophy is you want to.
Speaker B:You want.
Speaker B:If you want to write a gritty story, that's fine, but you don't ideally want to gross people out.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I think that's kind of the line.
Speaker B:And honestly, I don't know if I always follow that, but that's in there somewhere.
Speaker A:I wrote a book a couple years ago called Devour, about a prison warden who had a secret passion for cannibalism.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm in.
Speaker B:I. I want.
Speaker B:I want that book.
Speaker B:How do I get it?
Speaker A:I'll send you a copy.
Speaker A:I'll send you a copy if you'll give me a review for it.
Speaker A:How about that?
Speaker B:You got it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And it isn't.
Speaker A:You think to yourself, oh, geez, it's Hannibal.
Speaker A:Well, it's kind of Hannibal Lecter meets the Shawshank Redemption.
Speaker A:But the point was, is that I wanted to show his bent sickness without being overly graphic.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And it probably took about four edits until I went, okay, now it's not over the top.
Speaker A:So you're not going to be completely.
Speaker A:Because there were some people who were my beta readers going, dude, that's just a little bit too far.
Speaker A:Yeah, so.
Speaker A:So there is a fine line because you.
Speaker A:You don't want to.
Speaker A:Because there's also this.
Speaker A:Adam, tell me if you agree with this.
Speaker A:There is a point by.
Speaker A:Where you may take them out of the story because you.
Speaker A:You find yourself going, did that go too Far.
Speaker A:And if it goes too far, then they're.
Speaker A:They're taken out of the story.
Speaker A:They kind of step back.
Speaker A:They might even put it down.
Speaker A:So you.
Speaker A:It is a fine line, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:And I think smart authors will write scenes where some of the violence is off the page or some of it is just sort of suggested at.
Speaker B:So, you know, something awful is happening, but you're not necessarily getting sort of the blow by blowing account of it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it achieves the same effect without being too gratuitous.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now, in Hardtown, one of the things I probably most admire is how you and we've touched on this, how you're so brutally honest about your own mistakes as a cop, which, you know, you don't hear that every day.
Speaker A:Were there moments where you thought to yourself, adam, do you think maybe I shouldn't have put this in print?
Speaker B:I think the.
Speaker B:My guiding philosophy was everything in the book is true, and I don't mind.
Speaker B:I don't want to embarrass any of my coworkers, but I'm okay embarrassing myself.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, there is no perfect human endeavor, Dave.
Speaker B:We're all flawed creatures doing the best we can in a broken world.
Speaker B:So, you know, if people could learn from my mistakes, I was all for it.
Speaker B:I mean, I think I didn't want to just write about triumphs.
Speaker B:That's not what the job is.
Speaker A:Hey, let's go off script a little bit and go, what, what have your buddies, your pals, your co workers, male and female, what did they think about this book?
Speaker A:Have they read it?
Speaker A:What are their thoughts?
Speaker A:What kind of feedback?
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, they.
Speaker B:A lot of them have read 400 things cops know, and some of them I actually quoted in the book.
Speaker B:And then in my fiction, in the Ascent in Hardtown, I've used a couple of their last names as characters or some of the minor characters.
Speaker B:They, you know, they get a kick out of that.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:I mean, I think my novels are the kind of books that cops would tend to read.
Speaker B:They're sort of two fisted and move pretty quickly.
Speaker B:But it's funny, you know, I.
Speaker B:Cops being cops, I have, you know, they like to rib me.
Speaker B:And for instance, the.
Speaker B:The picture on my book jacket from my novels is a.
Speaker B:You know, I have sort of low overhead, so my wife took that picture and I didn't do a lot of styling for it.
Speaker B:She just kind of took it.
Speaker B:But, you know, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's maybe a little bit of a tough guy pose and so they made.
Speaker B:They made a point to say, you know, it looks like you're having bowel trouble in that picture.
Speaker B:I got a kick out of that.
Speaker A:That's hilarious.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker A:You know what it says to me?
Speaker A:And I'm going to pull it up on the screen a little bit later.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:Look, here's what it says to me.
Speaker A:You sure you want to do that?
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:I like that better than Bottle Trouble.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's go with your take.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm going to.
Speaker A:I'm going to do the same thing.
Speaker A:A and B, here's A, I got to shit my pants, or B.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:Don'T think you want to do that.
Speaker B:B, let's do B all day.
Speaker A:Okay, good.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:And scene.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:By the way, this is a bit of an aside, but I was listening to your interview with Adrian McKenty where you did a.
Speaker B:Just a fantastic.
Speaker B:Casey.
Speaker B:Case of impression.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:I mean, that was.
Speaker B:That interview was just delightfully everywhere.
Speaker A:I am so glad you said that, Adam, because sometimes I wonder, do people give a shit if we go off on tangents?
Speaker A:To me, the tangents are my favorite thing in the whole world, and nobody does tangents better than Adrian McKenty.
Speaker A:Matter of fact, I'd pull him back on the show just to do the tangents.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was fun.
Speaker B:That was a lot of fun.
Speaker A:This is Casey Gam on the top 20 countdown.
Speaker B:Yeah, there it is.
Speaker A:And part of the reason is, dude, you know, my first career was in radio, right?
Speaker A:So when I was 15, 16, that's, you know, I'd listen to the cats out of Chicago and Detroit on shortwave or AM radio.
Speaker A:And then down the road when it got going and I heard about this guy named Casey Kasem and keep reaching for the stars, and I thought, holy, that's exactly what I want to do.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, thank you for that.
Speaker A:Love the tangents.
Speaker A:I always.
Speaker A:It's funny because this morning when I was on the walk, I. I had.
Speaker A:And I'm glad you said this, because I thought, I want to ask Adam, because you're a guy's guy.
Speaker A:You're just, you know, and you're.
Speaker A:You're in a.
Speaker A:You're in a tough work environment that asks you to more or less put your life on the line every day.
Speaker A:And so when you get off that rivet, you got to ask yourself, you know, God, what.
Speaker A:What can I do to let loose and just relax and.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And see the light side of things?
Speaker A:So I was going to ask you what is something?
Speaker A:And you just said it.
Speaker A:But I'm going to ask you again as though the Adrian comment wasn't made or, or you have a second one.
Speaker A:What's something you've listened to?
Speaker A:Because you're now right here at the tip top of season nine in our fourth year and I know you've been listening for a long time.
Speaker A:What's something you've heard, heard or an art, you know, an author that has said that.
Speaker A:You walked away going, that is a defining moment.
Speaker A:That is something I'm going to use and work on from here on out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You had an interview with Nick Petrie, who I love, who's a good, good dude by the way.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Where he talked about some writing advice that was basically tell a story on a moving sidewalk.
Speaker B:So you know, don't just describe a room in sort of a static way.
Speaker B:Describe a room as a character goes into it or as a character gets punched in the face.
Speaker B:Sort of doing two things at once.
Speaker B:And that's, that's the kind of thing that I gravitate towards because it makes you sort of think about the structure of a, of a story in, in a different way.
Speaker A:You know, that is such a superb example.
Speaker A:And I have, I told my wife one day I said I'm gonna go back to all almost 300 episodes and pull out all the best writing advice, which is my closing question from every single one or one highlight like Nick Petrie's of every single one and dad Gummet.
Speaker A:I just don't have the bandwidth at the time to do that because I've got, I've just wrapped a non fiction, I've got this fiction that I'm working on, I've got two more in the pipeline, this show, etc.
Speaker A:Etc.
Speaker A:But man, if I, if I could ever take the time to do that, I could probably turn that into a book and just sell it right there because it just, it nails it right.
Speaker B:There's, as they say, there's gold in them hills.
Speaker A:Well, I wanted to say that I dig this.
Speaker A:I dig the COVID I want to say, is it by, Let me see.
Speaker A:I was going to say it was Carol Teague Johnson, but it's probably not.
Speaker A:Who did the COVID Oh yeah, Steven Attardo.
Speaker B:I love the COVID So good.
Speaker B:It's just got that great washed out look.
Speaker B:Just so many talented artists that work on book covers.
Speaker B:I really started appreciate them more now that I'm writing.
Speaker A:In my opinion and I know this, my listeners know this well to me, the success of a Book Jesus is True.
Speaker A:Do I.
Speaker A:Do I really mean this?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:50%, 40%.
Speaker A:Maybe I'll go 40.
Speaker A:40% is the COVID Yeah.
Speaker A:If I look at a cover and it doesn't pull me in or make me go, oh, they really spent the time on this and did.
Speaker A:Then I'm like, if you didn't spend the time on the COVID I'm not going to read your book.
Speaker A:I think this is probably a 19.
Speaker A:Somewhere between a 68 and a 72.
Speaker A:I'm going to go 72.
Speaker A:Could be 73 Ford F150.
Speaker A:The reason I know that is that that is one of my dad's first work trucks.
Speaker A:One of the first vehicles in our family I learned to drive on.
Speaker A:No power steering, no power brakes, no power windows, no AC.
Speaker B:AC is for WIMPs.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What are you, some kind of puss?
Speaker A:But growing up in the south, as I did come July, August, like, we're in right now.
Speaker A:As I talk to my family and they're like, oh, I'm sweating bullets.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yeah, San Diego's kind of nice.
Speaker A:It's 72 and sunny with low humility.
Speaker A:Anyway, that's a complete.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I. I love how the.
Speaker B:The title Hardtown is written where the.
Speaker B:The letters are actually sort of on fire.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's just those nice little touches.
Speaker A:It's like a vapor that's going away.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you go into a bookstore, there's just so many choices.
Speaker B:So, you know, if the COVID pulls you in and kind of speaks to you, then that's a win.
Speaker A:Did you see.
Speaker A:Did you hear my chit chat with Rachel Housel hall on Fog and Fury?
Speaker B:I have not yet.
Speaker A:Have you seen that cover of her book?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:I have not.
Speaker A:Hold that thought.
Speaker B:Okay, you got it.
Speaker A:See, I can do shit like this because it's my show and nobody can tell me what to do or not to do.
Speaker B:You're running things.
Speaker A:Fog and Fury.
Speaker A:Look at this one.
Speaker A:Look at that.
Speaker B:That's quite striking.
Speaker A:Quite striking indeed.
Speaker A:The color of the green and the.
Speaker A:I mean, I told her I thought it was the Golden Gate at first, and then you realize, of course it's not or the.
Speaker A:But anyway, that's just sweet.
Speaker A:Here's an.
Speaker A:While we're on show and tell.
Speaker A:We're going to come back to you.
Speaker A:Don't go.
Speaker A:Don't worry about this.
Speaker A:I have not read this yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker A:J.
Speaker A:Bell.
Speaker A:Joshua Hood praises it.
Speaker A:Welcome to Cottonmouth.
Speaker A:Check this one out.
Speaker A:How cool is that?
Speaker B:Oh, Nice, isn't.
Speaker A:Doesn't that just say something like, you're.
Speaker B:Like, I would pick that.
Speaker B:You know, I see that cover.
Speaker B:I'm going to pick that book up and take a look.
Speaker A:See, this is what I'm saying, folks.
Speaker A:The reason I'm doing show and tell, and if you're just listening to this and not able to watch it on YouTube, I. I pity you.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I am such a fanatic to.
Speaker A:I think it's because I'm a closet artist, having sketched and painted my whole life.
Speaker A:And when I see things that are really.
Speaker A:When it's balance and it's color and it's saturation, somebody really took the time.
Speaker A:It impresses me.
Speaker A:Now, along the lines of yours, because I've got this cat coming up.
Speaker A:I want you to look at the.
Speaker A:I'm going to show you first.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:Super, super simple.
Speaker A:For some reason, it gets me.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker A:Blue Horse.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've seen that cover before, and I was quite taken with it.
Speaker A:Bruce Borg is going to be on the show soon.
Speaker A:Look at the color.
Speaker A:Look at the color similarity.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That said, that's one I want to pick up.
Speaker A:Porter Beck.
Speaker A:This cat has really dialed it in.
Speaker A:This is only his second book.
Speaker A:He's the nicest cat, too.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Just pure gold.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's talking about coming down and see me right here in San Diego town.
Speaker A:I blew him most recently because I had some health shit, but, yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, folks, once again, people are loving.
Speaker A:Listen to this.
Speaker A:Meg Gardner.
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna close on some real bangers.
Speaker A:My good friend, one of the most delightful women writers in the world, Meg Gardner.
Speaker B:She rules.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's few better.
Speaker A:Hardtown knocked the breath out of me in the best way.
Speaker A:Gripping, fiercely propulsive, and vividly written.
Speaker A:It grabbed me from the very first word and never let go.
Speaker B:Yeah, that.
Speaker B:That's just someone who's very busy being generous with their time.
Speaker B:I really appreciate that.
Speaker A:And I have, as you might imagine, I have a little inside scoop on the world of thriller fiction, because I've been doing this for four years.
Speaker A:I remember when I started this show and my hair was brown.
Speaker A:It's now quite gray.
Speaker B:The pod takes a toll.
Speaker A:The pod kicks me in the short layers, so I know what it takes.
Speaker A:And when you go to ask writers of this caliber, Meg Gardner, and the next one, you know that they're really doing you a solid.
Speaker A:Greg Hurwitz, Orphan X cat.
Speaker A:There's a guy who knows how to Write.
Speaker B:Yes, he does.
Speaker A:He brings the cop's gritty authenticity and a poet's lyricism to Hardtown, elevating this fine novel above the pack.
Speaker A:We'll be reading Plantiga for years to come.
Speaker A:What a delight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I got to see Greg at ThrillerFest, and my plan is to try to stand as close to him as possible to see if it'll somehow make me a better writer.
Speaker B:He's a funny, funny guy.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He was a co MC for the banquet, and he's just got a.
Speaker B:He's got good comedic timing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:For some reason, I don't know why you don't expect him to be so funny, but when he relaxes, he really does shine.
Speaker B:Yeah, he brings it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Greg, I'm not saying you're uptight.
Speaker A:I'm just saying.
Speaker A:And I'm going to close with this, and only because it's one of my favorite authors.
Speaker A:And dad Gummet, if I haven't been able to get him on the show.
Speaker A:Adam, I bang on doors.
Speaker A:I remember back in the day when I would bang on a door for months and months, maybe years, and I would just.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm that tenacious that just says, I'm going to keep knocking until you say yes or no.
Speaker A:Yeah, if you say no, I'll go to the next door.
Speaker A: n, who I met at Thriller Fest: Speaker A:I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get this guy on the show.
Speaker A:Cannot get HC on the show.
Speaker A:So anyone listening who has connections to Harlan, get him to say yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's writing.
Speaker B:He's got shows on Netflix.
Speaker B:I think he just co wrote a book with we.
Speaker B:Reese Witherspoon.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's in high demand.
Speaker A:Well, and that's.
Speaker B:I'll.
Speaker A:I'll cut him enough of a slack.
Speaker A:But as you can see, you and I are 37 and a half minutes into this, and I don't think it's going to ruin your day by spending 37 and a half minutes with me.
Speaker A:Okay, okay, let me finish with his quote.
Speaker A:The ascent is jaw dropping, authentic, and absolutely gripping.
Speaker A:All right, book mic drop, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker A:You want to learn more, go to Adam Plantiga dot com.
Speaker A:It'll be on the screen.
Speaker A:The book is Hardtown.
Speaker A:And by the way, when you pick this up and it's only.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:Support your authors, for crying out loud.
Speaker A:We're all in this together, for crying out loud.
Speaker A:$30.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:30 bucks.
Speaker A:Pick up 400 things cops know.
Speaker A:I think that's, I want to say, like, 14.95.
Speaker B:Yeah, sounds about right.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:Drop the 45 bucks.
Speaker A:You'll thank me later.
Speaker A:I'm not getting any kickbacks.
Speaker A:I'll be.
Speaker A:Although I'm gonna get a free ride along when I go to San Francisco.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:Adam, dude, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker A:This was absolutely a hoot.
Speaker B:Oh, thanks for having me.
Speaker B:I've really enjoyed listening to your podcast, and it's a real privilege to be on it.
Speaker A:Privilege is mine, sir.
Speaker A:You are on your way.
Speaker A:Your number one podcast for stories that thrill the Thriller Zone.
