Tea, Tales, and Thrillers: The Adrian McKinty Experience
On today's 222nd episode of the world-famous Thriller Zone, host Dave Temple sits down with New York Times bestselling author Adrian McKinty, creator of the Sean Duffy Series.
Together, they’re diving deep into the thrilling world of storytelling and chatting about the magic of writing first drafts and how every aspiring author should just finish that story, no matter how messy it gets.
Adrian, a multiple New York Times bestselling author and Dave's new best buddy, shares some seriously cool insights about his journey, from bartending to teaching to crafting captivating crime novels.
And trust us, this episode isn’t just about the books; we’re dishing out some good ol' banter on everything from the best bagels to the quirks of tea culture, because what’s a conversation without a little flavor?
So, whether you’re a writer looking for inspiration or just a fan of witty exchanges, kick back, turn up the volume, and enjoy the ride with us in this delightful chat on the Thriller Zone!
Takeaways:
- The conversation between David and Adrian is filled with playful banter, creating a relaxed and fun atmosphere for listeners to enjoy.
- Adrian McKinty shares insights about the importance of finishing your writing, emphasizing that even a rough draft is a victory against the odds.
- The podcast touches on the unique nuances of language, including slang from Northern Ireland that adds a humorous twist to their dialogue.
- They dive into the world of food and drink, particularly the cultural significance of tea and biscuits, showcasing their shared love for culinary experiences.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:I'm your host, David Temple.
Speaker A:And on today's 222nd episode, 222.
Speaker A:I am very pleased to welcome New York Times best selling author and my new buddy, Adrian McKenty.
Speaker A:This is a long show, lots of fun, so kick back and relax.
Speaker A:If you're on the road, put it on cruise.
Speaker A:Turn up the volume and enjoy the ride.
Speaker A:Adrian McKenty is on the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Scooby Dooby Doo.
Speaker B:Scooby Dooby Doo.
Speaker B:That's a deep cut.
Speaker A:I thought you might like that.
Speaker B:I'm a big Scooby and Shaggy fan.
Speaker A:I know that.
Speaker B:Not so much scrappy.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker B:I think he, they brought him in in the 80s.
Speaker A:Oh my God.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker A:God, that's a long time ago.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It didn't work.
Speaker B:The, the classic.
Speaker B:It's funny, you know, it's the mystery mobile and the whole 60s vibe.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the reboot, that's just what they go for because they tried to modernize Scooby Doo.
Speaker B:It didn't work.
Speaker B:Nobody wanted it.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Some things are just best left the way they were originally intended.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Call me crazy.
Speaker B:And who's that?
Speaker B:I'm not American, so I don't know the names, people, but iconic DJ who.
Speaker A:Does the voice of Casey Kasem.
Speaker B:Casey Kasem, that's right.
Speaker B:That's a good name.
Speaker B:I think it's fairly easy name to remember.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Keep reaching for the stars.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I, I, I think when I came here, he was sort of ending, but people still had the, the, the sense memory of Casey.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:40.
Speaker B:Because he's got a very memorable cadence.
Speaker B:Is that what he.
Speaker B:It's a cadence.
Speaker B:It's a voice.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:Well, it's two things.
Speaker A:It, he, he created a, he created a particular sound that was absolutely amazing because of the way that he used the words.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then, you know, he had said, I need a, I need a sign off that everyone will remember.
Speaker A:And he, you know, and it was, I don't remember what it was.
Speaker A:God, this is a long time ago.
Speaker A:But he just said, you know, when I was dreaming of this as a kid, I just always thought I needed to reach for the stars.
Speaker A:And his wife said, that's what she'll use.
Speaker A:And he did reach for.
Speaker B:How do you do it?
Speaker B:You do a very good one.
Speaker A:You keep.
Speaker A:Duh.
Speaker A:This is Casey Kasen.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker A:And you keep reaching for the stars.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's uncanny.
Speaker B:That's actually really, really good.
Speaker B:It is weird though.
Speaker B:Radio guys, especially older radio guys.
Speaker B:I was watching 60 Minutes last Sunday and it was actually, it was the YouTube of a 60 Minutes segment.
Speaker B:And I was sucked into it or got recommended to me on YouTube because it was about the boneyard in Tucson, which I'm fascinated by.
Speaker B:It's a place I would love, love to visit and see all those planes.
Speaker B:So I thought, oh, I'll watch this.
Speaker B:And at the end of the.
Speaker B:It's a little 4 minute, 60 minute segment.
Speaker B:In the end, he flies in a P51 Mustang.
Speaker B:I just go, oh, my God, this guy's living my dream.
Speaker B:But it was so weird because the guy doing the segment talked in that 60 Minutes voice.
Speaker A:Huh?
Speaker B:Through the whole segment.
Speaker B:And it's like so inauthentic and weird sounding now because, you know, people have listened to the podcast where everybody just talks normally, right?
Speaker B:Use their normal voice.
Speaker B:They don't talk in a strange, stilted.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Weirdo voice where they.
Speaker B:And that's the way the 60 Minutes guys still do.
Speaker B:And I hadn't seen 60 Minutes for years.
Speaker B:And the guy was going, what do planes do when they retire?
Speaker B:They don't go to Florida, but they are like snowbirds.
Speaker B:They go to Tucson.
Speaker B:Is he talking like this?
Speaker B:Is that how he talks to his wife in the morning when he's getting.
Speaker B:Honey, are you up yet?
Speaker B:Someone getting the coffee.
Speaker B:I just go, wow.
Speaker B:It's like, it's actually worth looking up.
Speaker B:Just go.
Speaker B:While people are still doing that inauthentic, weird sounding voice.
Speaker B:And it's like, it's like old, Old radio is the best.
Speaker B: Like: Speaker B:Yeah, it's even.
Speaker B:I mean, that's so much.
Speaker B:I can't do that at all, that accent.
Speaker B:But it's so much worse and weird.
Speaker A: It was: Speaker A:All planes everywhere needed to go somewhere, you know?
Speaker B:That's another good one.
Speaker B:Well, Adrian, here comes Jackie Robinson young for the Brooklyn Dodgers.
Speaker A:I know you probably don't know this, but do you know what my first career was starting at 16?
Speaker B:No, tell me, radio DJ, did you have to do the Voice?
Speaker A:So by the time I hit the major markets and my first major was Detroit, it was just like this.
Speaker A:Good afternoon at 7, 20, 20 minutes after 7:00.
Speaker A:Dave McKay on your 100.3.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So that was, that was the thing and, you know, I was booked.
Speaker B:Is there a name for that?
Speaker B:What is that called?
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker A:It's just being a dj, dude.
Speaker A:This was back when that People don't.
Speaker B:Talk like that in real life.
Speaker B:They really don't.
Speaker A:Well, you know who started that was boss radio.
Speaker A:This was the 60s, when I'm trying to think of the cats that were doing that, because these are the guys I grew up listening to on shortwave and am out of Chicago when I was, like, 13.
Speaker B:Right, right, right.
Speaker A:Larry Ljack from Chicago.
Speaker A:So they all do these really big voices.
Speaker A:Seven, 20.
Speaker A:Good morning.
Speaker A:It's Adrian McKinney on the radio.
Speaker A:You know, funny.
Speaker A:Yeah, but, yeah, here's a.
Speaker A:Here's a.
Speaker A:Here's a bad side effect.
Speaker A:So then I went for.
Speaker A:I got out of radio, went to Los Angeles to get into acting, and the voice was still there.
Speaker A:The voice is still the same.
Speaker A:And the guys would look at me like, you sound like a radio DJ from, like, the 80s.
Speaker A:Can you turn it down?
Speaker A:And so I had to kind of tune it out.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's so weird.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's the same in the uk.
Speaker B:You know, like, the BBC has this received pronunciation that no one actually speaks like in real life.
Speaker A:Give me an idea.
Speaker B:It's like, there's been an earthquake in Iran.
Speaker B:Six thousand people are.
Speaker B:Are dead.
Speaker B:The evacuations are continuing all night.
Speaker B:And then they'll get off there, just go, what do you think of that?
Speaker B:Was that all right, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it was fine.
Speaker B:It was fine.
Speaker A:Well, you know why they do that, right?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker A:It's for drama, dude.
Speaker A:I mean, think about it.
Speaker A:If I said, like, here's.
Speaker A:Here's what happened yesterday.
Speaker A:I'm sitting right here at this desk, working away, and a 5.7 earthquake hit.
Speaker B:Oh, where are you?
Speaker A:You're in Southern California, in San Diego.
Speaker A:So it looked like.
Speaker A:It looked like this, right?
Speaker A:I'm like, holy balls, what's going on?
Speaker A:And then of all those things kick in.
Speaker A:But if I got on the air in 15 minutes and said, so, folks, yeah, 5.7 earthquake hit San Diego this afternoon, you'd go, wait, what?
Speaker A:But if I go, just this afternoon, 13 minutes ago, a 5.7 earthquake hit San Diego, then you're like, there is there.
Speaker B:There is that station in New York, and I don't know if it's still going.
Speaker B:Do you remember that?
Speaker B: Have you ever heard: Speaker A:Dude, I grew up with that.
Speaker A:1010 wins.
Speaker B:With 10 minutes, we'll give you the world.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:They do that for 10 minutes with the weather and the news, and it's all the same.
Speaker B:It's like a beloved pizzeria has closed today after 75 years.
Speaker B:Meanwhile, a quadruple murder in Midtown.
Speaker B:And you just go, what?
Speaker A: It's the same: Speaker A:You give us 10 minutes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm flustered.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, again, it's drama.
Speaker A:It sells.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You know, I would say it sells newspapers, but it sells ra.
Speaker A:And, you know, it just.
Speaker A:It was part of the thing.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And back in the day.
Speaker A:Back in this.
Speaker A:Yeah, this is late mid, mid to late 70s, 80s.
Speaker A:You know, the guys who hired me said, oh, do that thing that you do.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It's gonna really kick ass on the radio.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But we need to change your name because it's too religious.
Speaker A:I'm like, what?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:David Temple.
Speaker A:I mean, come on.
Speaker A:What are you, Jewish?
Speaker A:And so it became Dave McKay.
Speaker A:Start your day with Dave McKay.
Speaker B:I like the rhyme of that.
Speaker B:But there is a.
Speaker B:There is a Simon Templar.
Speaker B:I don't know if you.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, that's the Saint.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So David Temple kind of sounds similar.
Speaker B:It's a James Bondi type.
Speaker B:David Temple, Simon Templer, James Bond.
Speaker B:They all sort of similar vibe.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:I like that a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, they all have, like.
Speaker B:Like, if you noticed in crime fiction, I would say that there's about eight or nine series where the lead author, the lead character is Jack.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:There's so many Jacks.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, it must have been advice someone was given, like, 12 years ago, and they said, oh, you call him Jack.
Speaker B:It said, everyman name.
Speaker B:You know, Jack comes from nowhere.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:You know, it might not be his real name, but Jack.
Speaker A:Well, look at it.
Speaker A:We got Jack Carr, Jack Stewart, Jack Reacher.
Speaker A:I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's short, it's memorable, it's plosive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's one in Australia called Jack Irish.
Speaker B:Peter Temple.
Speaker B:Do you know.
Speaker B:Do you know Peter Temple?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:His big Australian crime writer.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:His hero is Jack Irish.
Speaker A:I kind of like that name.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Jack Irish.
Speaker B:Those books are quite fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, well.
Speaker A:Hey, by the way, can I get you to tilt your laptop down just a skosh so I get more.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Yonkers Fire.
Speaker A:Let's see it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:And by the way, it looks like you shaved for me, too.
Speaker A:You really dressed up nice.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:I had a sh.
Speaker B:Yesterday, I had a.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think of the baseball players that have the scraggliest beards.
Speaker B:Not the Yankees, obviously, but I had a.
Speaker B:Let's say a Diamondbacks in July type thing going on.
Speaker A:Well, matter of fact, the the artwork, and I'll pop it up on the screen in post here.
Speaker A:But, yeah, you had.
Speaker A:You had a nice little.
Speaker A:And you probably can grow a wicked beard.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I remember one winter in Denver because Denver's the place to grow a beard.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:One winter in Denver.
Speaker B:I grew up.
Speaker B:Fantastic.
Speaker B:Over six months.
Speaker B:I had a fantastic.
Speaker B:This is another deep cut, Grizzly Adams style.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Beard.
Speaker B:And the kids loved it.
Speaker B:My two daughters loved it.
Speaker B:They said, oh, you look like Santa Claus.
Speaker B:You look like a real daddy.
Speaker B:My wife effing hated it.
Speaker A:Sure, sure.
Speaker B:She said, first of all, you look 30 years older.
Speaker B:Yeah, you look like mountain man slash homeless man.
Speaker B:Mad prophet.
Speaker B:And I go, perfect.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:I was going for that.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:Mad prophet.
Speaker B:Are you kidding me?
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's all I've ever wanted to be, so.
Speaker B:And eventually she won out.
Speaker B:She said, it's got to go.
Speaker B:It's got to go.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:If you ever want to have conjugal relations again, it's this, you know, bare man, sasquatch look has to go.
Speaker B:And so I was all in favor of it.
Speaker B:And I got so much more respect of, like, the liquor store and stuff like that.
Speaker B:There's no carding anymore.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:There's none of that.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Oh, this guy's lived.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's.
Speaker B:He probably did the hippie trail in the 70s, especially if he had left.
Speaker A:Some crumbs in it, you know, just for character.
Speaker B:Now he's living up in the mountains in a cabin, and he's come back into Denver every.
Speaker B:Every couple of years, get his supplies, and then he goes back up there.
Speaker A:Hilarious.
Speaker A:Did you live.
Speaker A:Did you live in Denver for a while?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we lived there for about seven years.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:It was nice.
Speaker B:It was really nice.
Speaker A:And what.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:Let's see then.
Speaker A:Did you go to New York from there?
Speaker B:No, we were in Denver for about seven years, and then the.
Speaker B:I guess were weak because the winters broke us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They don't really tell you that.
Speaker B:And the Denver Tourist Board doesn't really tell you that the winters begin in September and then they end in April.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:On the first year you do that, you go, oh, wow.
Speaker B:We had 12 epic snowstorms from September to April.
Speaker B:It was really fun.
Speaker B:And I've never.
Speaker B:White Christmas.
Speaker B:And then, like, by the fourth or fifth year, like, the end of August, you're going, oh, my God.
Speaker B:We better start preparing for winter.
Speaker B:No, winter is coming.
Speaker A:The only thing worse, Adrian, is Chicago.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Imagine And I was there from 91 to 95.
Speaker A:And by the last year, I was doing radio shows.
Speaker A:And by the last year I said, f this, I am.
Speaker A:I am done.
Speaker A:Because it starts in October.
Speaker A:September, you know, September.
Speaker A:October goes till about May, because I remember I got fired from this radio gig.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It was a.
Speaker A:It was about May.
Speaker A:And I said, okay, I've had enough.
Speaker A:When you go outside at 4:30 in the morning, because my show started at 5.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's 33 below and the wind hasn't started blowing yet.
Speaker A:You're like.
Speaker A:And people's ears are falling off.
Speaker A:You're like, nah, time out.
Speaker B:Yeah, I remember, like, in April, like 20th.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like the tulips would be coming up in the daffodils.
Speaker B:And then we get like the 30th of the snow and you go, what.
Speaker B:What is this?
Speaker B:Stop.
Speaker A:It's the High Sierra, though.
Speaker A:It goes away and then it comes back and then it goes away.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker B:And then, you know, so, yeah, we got it.
Speaker B:We had enough of that.
Speaker B:Like seven years of like, epic, epic winters.
Speaker B:And I thought, okay, you know, let's go somewhere warm.
Speaker B:And then we went to.
Speaker B:We ended up going to Melbourne, Australia.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:We were there for about seven years as well.
Speaker B:And then back to New York City and both.
Speaker B:Both great places.
Speaker B:Melbourne.
Speaker B:I can't say enough good things about Melbourne.
Speaker B:I can't say enough good things.
Speaker B:But Denver.
Speaker B:But just things to watch out for.
Speaker B:And things to watch out for in Melbourne are January and February, when it's like 110, like every day for like 30 days.
Speaker B:And just go, wow.
Speaker B:And just go, okay, like the rest of the year, fine.
Speaker B:But just January and February every year.
Speaker B:Quite hardcore.
Speaker B:And then the thing to look out for in Denver is don't ever start shoveling your neighbor's driveway because you'll be doing that for eight months for the next seven years.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's a lovely old lady that can't shovel her in front of her stoop.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Or no, no, you have to shovel.
Speaker B:I remember the bylaw was you have to shovel the sidewalk in front of your house.
Speaker B:So you make the mistake of, oh, this little old lady.
Speaker B:I'll shovel hers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then she's, you know, my friend down the way, she has trouble trapped.
Speaker B:So then every snowstorm, you're like four or five blocks, you're the mug out shoveling.
Speaker B:It's quite intense, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, but both nice places.
Speaker B:And then in Denver, you can go up to Boulder, you can up the mountain.
Speaker A:Oh, Baby Boulder.
Speaker A:And by the way, did you hear that they just locked the south by South.
Speaker A:Sundance Film Festival is going there.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:Yeah, I loved Boulder.
Speaker B:I had so many good.
Speaker B:There was a Fanta.
Speaker B:There used to be a fantastic mystery bookstore there and called High Crimes.
Speaker B:You know, they always have that weird pun.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Mystery bookstores.
Speaker A:Mile High City.
Speaker B:It was amazing.
Speaker B:It was so great.
Speaker B:And then it struggled for so many years.
Speaker B:And I would always do a reading there and get the punters in, and then eventually, like, all those little specialty bookstores, they closed.
Speaker B:I think there's only two left now, or three left.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's one in Houston.
Speaker B:There's Mysterious Books in New York, and then there's Poison Pan and in Scottsdale.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that's it.
Speaker A:Couple things I want to say.
Speaker A:First of all, I'm glad you led with the Tucson graveyard at the Plains, because I've driven by there, and you have to see.
Speaker A:It's absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:You just want to be.
Speaker A:And I think if you have the wherewithal, you can actually roll up and haul one off, because they're like, yeah, go ahead, take.
Speaker A:Take it on.
Speaker A:And can you imagine taking it back and plopping it somewhere and turn it into a home?
Speaker A:It'd be really kind of cool.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I would love that.
Speaker A:Number two, Poison Pen.
Speaker A:Always a fabulous place to visit.
Speaker A:I know you've been there before.
Speaker A:Number three.
Speaker A:Do you recall the first time we met?
Speaker A:And we met for about 18 seconds at Mysterious.
Speaker A:Oh, and Mysterious it was.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna flash the photograph up on the screen during post.
Speaker A: as up there for Thriller Fest: Speaker A:I ran through pouring rain, got there, saw Don, met you.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker B:Was I interviewing Don?
Speaker A:Yeah, you.
Speaker A:You were talking back and forth about.
Speaker A:And I'd love to impress you with the book that he was talking.
Speaker B:Was it the Cartel or was it the Border?
Speaker A:The Border.
Speaker B:So I was interviewing him about the.
Speaker B:Got it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It was a brilliant interview.
Speaker A:It was probably one of the best because you could see that you guys were pals.
Speaker B:Anyway, I'll tell you.
Speaker B:I'll tell you the thing.
Speaker B:You know this.
Speaker B:But some people are easy interviews.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And some people are hard interviews.
Speaker B:Don Winslow is an easy, easy, easy interview.
Speaker B:You're like, you.
Speaker B:You over prepare as you always do.
Speaker B:You have, like, 14 questions, and then an hour is up and you've got the number four.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Because Don has gone on all these tangents and he's answered other questions and, like, super, super easy.
Speaker B:And then there's some people.
Speaker B:I've had this at various thriller fests and noir cons and stuff where they're, I mean, super shy.
Speaker B:They never wanted to be here in the first place.
Speaker B:They don't want to talk about themselves, which is fine.
Speaker B:Then they also don't want to talk about the book, which you go, okay, now what am I going to do?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Talk about the writing process.
Speaker B:They don't want to talk about their book, and they don't want to talk about themselves.
Speaker B:Like, did you catch any TV last night?
Speaker B:Like, how was your commute?
Speaker B:Like, what do you do?
Speaker B:And then you get that cold sweat panic thing.
Speaker B:You look at the clock.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, we've only done 10 minutes.
Speaker B:And I had to interview a very, very famous.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna say her name.
Speaker B:Cause she's lovely.
Speaker B:Very famous Irish writer.
Speaker B:And she really is a lovely person and super famous, but she is incredibly shy.
Speaker B:And it was one of those where I had to interview her and she didn't want to be there.
Speaker B:She was, I want to say, like agoraphobic.
Speaker B:What is it when you.
Speaker B:You just don't.
Speaker B:You're not comfortable in front of a crowd?
Speaker A:It's agoraphobia, right?
Speaker B:It says.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she was slightly agoraphobic, of course, because she's quite famous and popular, big crowd.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker B:And she's really uncomfortable in the green room.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And I was saying, it's going to be fine.
Speaker B:It's going to be fine.
Speaker B:It's going to be.
Speaker B:And then when she went up there, it wasn't fine because the place was packed full of super fans.
Speaker B:And that one wasn't her fault at all because she's just a really private, shy person.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we got through it, and she got through meeting all the fans, but I don't think she did another one for about five.
Speaker B:For about five years after that.
Speaker B:Okay, that's.
Speaker B:No more of those.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Her cup of tea at all.
Speaker A:And I don't want.
Speaker A:I don't want to play.
Speaker A:Try to top you, but I have had a couple people on here that really.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I was five, 10 minutes in and I said, so.
Speaker A:And so you do realize that we have started now, right?
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:So, you know, let's go.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:And we made it through, but the edit was pretty horrendous.
Speaker A:By the time you cut all those wicked ass Gaps out of it.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That's all.
Speaker B:That's also a problem.
Speaker B:Or there's also.
Speaker B:I've had one or two where.
Speaker B:Not some.
Speaker B:I've had one or two where people have come with a hobby horse that they want to talk about that, and it's an issue of the day that's troubling them, and they feel, this is my chance.
Speaker B:And I just go.
Speaker B:And I'm thinking, dude, people are here for thrillers and for crime fiction and for you and your book.
Speaker B:They're not here to talk about X.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Happening at the moment.
Speaker B:And so you're steering them back.
Speaker B:Says, oh, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:That reminds me of something that happened in page 47.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, yes, page 47 was.
Speaker B:Was an important issue, but an even more important issue is.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Suing them in every time and just go, wow, this is.
Speaker B:But that's.
Speaker B:In my experience, that's about 5%.
Speaker B:And the nice lady from Ireland, that's another.
Speaker B:Most people, I think, are in the fat part of the bell curve, where they're just completely normal and great.
Speaker B:And Don Winslow is one of those where it's just.
Speaker B:He's put you at ease.
Speaker B:He's totally relaxed.
Speaker B:He's comfortable in front of people.
Speaker B:I think his mother was a schoolteacher librarian.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So comfortable in front of crowds and people and that kind of world, which is perfect.
Speaker A:He really is a gift.
Speaker A:I mean, he.
Speaker A:You never have to sweat anything.
Speaker A:And that's probably one of the nicest things I could say, is that he's such a gracious kind.
Speaker A:You'd never believe that he would craft such horrific darkness.
Speaker A:But, of course, that's what's called imagination.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I've had him on, what, two, maybe three times, both like this, in this zoom world.
Speaker A:And then he came to my studio here, and we sat down in the living room and just chatted for a couple hours, and it was probably the highlight of my career.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:Whereabouts in San Diego are you?
Speaker A:Del Mar.
Speaker A:Which is just up the coast outside of a La Jolla.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Because my daughter is at ucsd.
Speaker A:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:And she's finishing up.
Speaker B:And she felt the quake yesterday.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:She's in La Jolla.
Speaker B:Somewhere between La Jolla and whatever the next.
Speaker B:I think it's just this.
Speaker B:The school is.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:There's La Jolla.
Speaker A:Yeah, she's.
Speaker A:She's nine.
Speaker A:She's eight minutes from me.
Speaker A:I run through that neighborhood all the time.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:It was spooky.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Hey, listen, I guess we're 20 minutes or so in and we do have a little something to talk about.
Speaker A:Do that.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm not precious.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'll talk about it.
Speaker A:There are a couple things, as you can see by the notes.
Speaker A:I have a 1 surprise that I'm going to spring on you.
Speaker B:Spring.
Speaker A:And then, matter of fact, let's do this.
Speaker A:Do you have a copy nearby?
Speaker B:I do not have a copy.
Speaker A:Oh, geez.
Speaker A:Now you've just effed it up, haven't you?
Speaker B:Because were you going to ask me to read.
Speaker A:I have a one.
Speaker A:I have one particular.
Speaker A:Where did I put it?
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's my favorite.
Speaker A:It's just this one little thing at the.
Speaker A:At the end of this.
Speaker A:On the end of sick.
Speaker A:Chapter 6.
Speaker A:When I read it, it was.
Speaker A:So what.
Speaker B:What is that bit?
Speaker B:Tell me.
Speaker B:Tell me the bit and I'll tell you a story about it.
Speaker A:Duffy's heading.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's in his living room.
Speaker A:He's curling up in front of the fireplace.
Speaker A:He had just snagged the SS Flag from the guys in the neighborhood, which was just a priceless.
Speaker A:The pride with which he had for his neighborhood.
Speaker A:And he was going to step up in front of these skinheads and go, no, no, no, you're taking that down.
Speaker A:No, I'm not taking it down.
Speaker A:You are going to take it down.
Speaker A:And here's why.
Speaker A:Which, that was a fantastic scene.
Speaker A:But then when I got to the end, and of course it led me down a whole rabbit hole and I'm going to mispronounce this, so just bear with me.
Speaker B:Go, go, go, go.
Speaker A:Spiegel.
Speaker B:I'm talking.
Speaker B:I'm pulling up like a draft of the novel.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:On my computer.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:What did you say?
Speaker B:Chapter six.
Speaker A:Chapter six.
Speaker A:And it's about.
Speaker A:You're talking about Spiegel.
Speaker A:Im Spiegel by Arvo Part.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's laying down on the Persian rug.
Speaker B:Arvo.
Speaker A:Arvo and.
Speaker A:And matter of fact, here's two things I did.
Speaker A:I instantly researched that.
Speaker A:Went down a whole rabbit hole for half an afternoon.
Speaker A:Listened to that piece.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, my God, how would I have never heard about this?
Speaker A:Which took me down the.
Speaker A:Another rabbit hole of reading comments about it for.
Speaker A:On YouTube for just IANS.
Speaker A:And then I learned about this particular.
Speaker A:Am I saying it right?
Speaker A:Jura or ura.
Speaker B:14 year whiskey.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So that particular.
Speaker A:Have you got that handy?
Speaker B:Okay, I've got it.
Speaker B:No, it might be different in the version.
Speaker B:In the version You've got.
Speaker B:But I can.
Speaker B:I can read you.
Speaker A:Okay, but here's we're going to do.
Speaker A:We're going to take a short break and right when we come back, folks, there's a couple things.
Speaker A:One I wanted to start off the show with.
Speaker A:We'll get to.
Speaker A:And then Adrian is going to very kindly read this particular passage.
Speaker A:So it's Adrian McKenty right here on the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:Stay with us.
Speaker A:And we're back with Adrian McKenty, Dave Temple here on the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A:We're talking about, of course, hang on, St.
Speaker A:Christopher.
Speaker A:And Adrian has agreed to.
Speaker A:Now, of course it won't be exactly probably like this arc which came to me, you know, this book released in March, so I'm a little late to the party, but that's okay.
Speaker A:But you have the selection in front of you.
Speaker B:Yes, I've got the first draft in front of me.
Speaker B:So it might be a little different from the arc and it might be a little different from the final version.
Speaker B:I can read this, but.
Speaker B:And what's happened is that Duffy has got himself into some hijinks after a year of being retired and doing nothing.
Speaker B:And he's enjoying the vibe of everything that's just happened in the last three hours.
Speaker B:Ridiculous series of events have just happened.
Speaker B:And then he comes back to his old house.
Speaker B:He keeps a little bolt hole in Northern Ireland and he gets back to his old house and he just showers.
Speaker B:Then he comes back downstairs and as I read this, my accent is going to get pure Belfast.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:That's the way I read in my head.
Speaker B:So I've been out of Ireland for 30 years, in Australia, America, lots of different places.
Speaker B:But when I read, I go straight into north Belfast.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:It's all you.
Speaker B:So here we go.
Speaker B:Duffy goes downstairs.
Speaker B:The music and the smell of the turf and the taste of the 14 year old single maldura.
Speaker B:I got into the sleeping bag.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In Scotland I was safe.
Speaker B:I was a different man.
Speaker B:A postmodern man with the postmodern sickness.
Speaker B:La chere et triste et j?
Speaker B:Lu tout les livres anomie weltschmerz.
Speaker B:Call it what you will.
Speaker B:And that world of garden centers and hardware barns, that world of order and safety.
Speaker B:The fate of men was to grow fat, old, complacent, reactionary, and eventually to die.
Speaker B:But that was there on that side of the shuck.
Speaker B:But not here.
Speaker B:Things were different here on this side of the water.
Speaker B:Here I had purpose.
Speaker B:Here I had a kiss.
Speaker B:A murder case.
Speaker B:I said aloud.
Speaker B:Arvo pert Whiskey Nancy Flagg burning in the fireplace.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:And I couldn't wipe the silly grin off my face as I drifted over into sleep.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:That was even more perfect than I had hoped.
Speaker B:Was not close enough to the actual version.
Speaker A:It was almost identical, Adrian.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Almost identical.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just for some reason, for whatever reason, that just captured me.
Speaker A:I was there.
Speaker A:All those different influences.
Speaker A:Maybe it's because back in the day when I'd get off a radio show, I'd go home and I'd put on.
Speaker A:My thing was I'd put on a fireplace.
Speaker A:I lived right there in Lakeshore Drive.
Speaker A:Put on Miles Davis.
Speaker B:Oh, God.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Stare out the window.
Speaker A:I saw the.
Speaker A:I was on the 40th floor, so I could see all of downtown and out to O'Hare.
Speaker A:And it was just.
Speaker A:I was there in that kind of a mindset with you.
Speaker A:You're a great reader, too.
Speaker B:I love that Miles and Cotrain going together.
Speaker B:That works.
Speaker A:While we're on this, and I'm.
Speaker A:This is perfect timing because I'm going to run some words by you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And I purposely did not look them up.
Speaker A:And I don't know a lot of the different phrases from Northern Ireland.
Speaker B:Good game.
Speaker B:Because we'll see here if I'm a complete fraud.
Speaker B:And I just looked up a bunch of fancy words and put them in, and I actually don't know what they mean at all.
Speaker B:So this is going to be good.
Speaker B:This will be a good game.
Speaker B:This will uncover whether I'm an imposter and a complete hack fraud.
Speaker A:Well, one you used already in the conversation so far, and you said peeler.
Speaker A:And I want to know the difference between a peeler and a slabber.
Speaker B:Okay, well, I'll tell you what the, The.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:I'll tell you what the etymology is.
Speaker B: he police force in Britain in: Speaker B:But people also don't forget that he also invented the Irish police force.
Speaker B:Like two or three years later, he was the home secretary.
Speaker B:And so for some weird reason, so Robert Peel.
Speaker B:So in Britain, in London, they're called bobbies.
Speaker B:Where's the bobby on the beat?
Speaker B:What are we going to do?
Speaker B:Someone's stolen me bicycle.
Speaker B:Call the bobby on the beat.
Speaker B:So the bobby on the beat.
Speaker B:Robert Peel.
Speaker B:And in Ireland, for whatever reason, they became known as peelers.
Speaker B:So here's come the peelers.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:What we're going to do were all the stolen goods.
Speaker B:And I like the way in the.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:In the English example idea of there, the person was the Victim of the crime.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And in the Irish example, they were the perpetrators.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker B:So in Ireland, peelers.
Speaker B:In England, Bobby's Gotcha.
Speaker A:And slabber.
Speaker A:What's a slabber?
Speaker B:A slobber.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it's a wee kind of annoying git of a child, which is.
Speaker A:Like a wee shite.
Speaker B:Yes, like a wee.
Speaker B:Someone who's really annoying you and you can't physically attack them because they're too young and you go to prison, but.
Speaker B:So there's nothing you can do.
Speaker B:Like a wee slobber comes up to you and just annoys the hell out and you just have to deal with it, cope with it.
Speaker A:Side note, are you enjoying Mobland as much as we are?
Speaker B:I haven't started it yet.
Speaker B:I have been saving.
Speaker B:I saw the trailer for it and I thought, oh, my God, Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And Tom Hardy.
Speaker A:Tom Hardy.
Speaker A:I mean, now we have to put on the subtitles at the bottom because they really turn up the brogue to 11.
Speaker B:But you know what he does a little bit?
Speaker B:Guy Ritchie, he also has this fake cockney verse and he uses a lot of rhyming thing that people never actually use in real life.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:So he's, he's, he.
Speaker B:He is also turning it up a wee bit, like.
Speaker B:Because people.
Speaker B:People don't really talk like that.
Speaker B:Oh, it's got the old apples and stairs, you know, like, people don't really.
Speaker B:It's not really that full on.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker B:It's a sort of a fantasy world, which is.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Which I think is fine.
Speaker A:Well, and Guy Ritchie is the director behind it.
Speaker A:And Guy is known for real.
Speaker A:I mean, remember.
Speaker A:Oh, geez.
Speaker A:What was the movie with Brad Pitt?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Where he was doing the, the, the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The traveler accent, which I couldn't understand a single word.
Speaker B:That was so funny because I could understand all of it.
Speaker A:Oh, geez.
Speaker B:Because he was doing a fairly authentic Irish traveler accent and he was doing it well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you know Tyson Fury, the heavyweight champion of the world?
Speaker B:As was the boxer.
Speaker B:He lost the heavyweight championship just last year to that Ukrainian boxer.
Speaker B:But Tyson Fury, he was the heavyweight champ for about five years, and he comes from an Irish traveler family, but he grew up in Manchester.
Speaker B:But he doesn't have that accent.
Speaker B:But his mother, who is from Belfast does.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:You heard Tyson Fury's.
Speaker B:It's like her and Brad Pitt could have a Converse.
Speaker B:It'd be like Close Encounters when the, when the alien is talking to the guy playing the organ.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like we Couldn't really understand it, but they can understand each other, you know?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yes, I.
Speaker B:I could follow that one.
Speaker B:He was actually doing a.
Speaker B:I have to say, he was doing a good job.
Speaker A:Yeah, he nailed it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Here's another one.
Speaker A:Shoofty.
Speaker B:Oh, just a wee shifty.
Speaker B:Does it.
Speaker B:Was the word we before it?
Speaker A:No, I don't remember, but I just wrote down shoofty.
Speaker A:Not shifty, but shoofty.
Speaker B:Yeah, we.
Speaker B:Shifty.
Speaker B:It's like a we move, we play we.
Speaker B:It's like something sneaky, unskilled that you're up to.
Speaker B:I'll just take a wee shifty around the corner and see what's going on.
Speaker A:Gotcha.
Speaker B:You're sneaking out for a cigarette break and you don't want people to know?
Speaker B:She said, I'm just gonna shift the outside.
Speaker B:Just a stretch, Matt.
Speaker B:And your wife's going, you're not smoking again, are you?
Speaker A:No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:I don't have a pack of cigarettes hidden under the tin cans.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Not true.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Gutties.
Speaker B:Oh, sneakers, training shoes, runners.
Speaker B:Some people would say, yeah, but gutties is pure Belfast.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where did that come from?
Speaker B:That I don't know.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Cat got something.
Speaker B:Was the bridge.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:But because what is the word for boots?
Speaker A:Not wallies.
Speaker B:Oh, wellies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wellies.
Speaker A:Yeah, wellies.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Because that comes from General Wellington.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Field Marshal Wellington.
Speaker B:That one makes sense.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:The etymology.
Speaker B:The etymology of gutties.
Speaker B:I, I can't figure that.
Speaker A:Okay, well, the wife and I love anything British on television, so we're always loving these.
Speaker A:Now, when I saw the word clocked, I thought it meant, like, punched.
Speaker A:Like, I'm gonna clock you.
Speaker A:But you have as.
Speaker A:At a different word, don't you?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:I, I, I, I clocked that the room had changed.
Speaker B:I clocked at the vibe had changed.
Speaker B:It's, It's.
Speaker B:You completely see it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Like, you really see something.
Speaker B:I clocked that he was lying to me all along, that he was the guy, that everything he'd said up to that point was untrue.
Speaker B:I clocked it.
Speaker B:Got it.
Speaker B:Who's that?
Speaker B:Crime writer.
Speaker B:Starship Troopers.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Science fiction writer Heinlein.
Speaker B:So he has a word called grok, where grok is you completely understand and really see something which is very similar to the Irish clock.
Speaker A:Brilliant.
Speaker A:I love this prolix.
Speaker A:Am I saying that right?
Speaker A:P, R, O, L, I, s.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Somebody who's a talker.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:He gabber.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Not someone.
Speaker B:Not like you and me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All Right, we know what we is.
Speaker A:What's Jaffa Cake?
Speaker B:Oh, Jaffa Cakes are.
Speaker B:These are very controversial.
Speaker B:They're biscuits, but because of some weird tax regulation for biscuits that don't apply to cakes, they call them cakes.
Speaker B:So they're called Jaffa Cakes, but they're actually just British biscuits, but they're known as Jaffa Cakes.
Speaker B:Okay, so yeah, everybody, everybody from the UK and Ireland would know.
Speaker B:What a job.
Speaker B:There's a television show called Spaced and it's the first appearance ever of Edgar Wright, the director and oh, who's the guy?
Speaker B:Simon Pegg.
Speaker A:Oh, love him.
Speaker B:And there's this very funny moment in the first season where they're discussing the meaning of life and then someone says to Simon Pegg, just throws at him this big ethereal, earth shattering question and he just goes, oh my God.
Speaker B:And then you think he's about to deliver the meaning of life and they all go, what?
Speaker B:He says, I found some Jaffa Cakes in me pocket.
Speaker B:And they're all delighted because it's midnight and the shops have all closed and he found some Jaffa Cakes.
Speaker B:So that it's always been associated with that TV show.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Oh, here's another thing I've always wondered and maybe it was the sign of the times because when I go back to All Creatures Great and Small, they did this all the time.
Speaker A:Everyone's always eating toast.
Speaker A:It's like, oh my God, would you like some toast?
Speaker A:And it's toast and butter and I'm like, toast with.
Speaker A:For me it's like toast, yeah, I'll get help some toast, whatever.
Speaker A:But every but in your world, it's like, it's tea and toast, like tea and buttered and I mean, toast that's buttered and then tea that's cream and sugar is just like heaven.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Well, here's the thing.
Speaker B:I don't take sugar in my tea, but I still, I love a good cup of tea.
Speaker B:I will not say no to a good cup of tea.
Speaker B:But here's the thing about the toast.
Speaker B:You know, when I first came to America, you know, I love America, it's a fantastic country.
Speaker B:But I remember seeing the butter and was horrified and it was these little things of these little rectangles.
Speaker B:And then I lifted up the white wrapping paper and so this white blob of.
Speaker B:I don't know exactly what it was.
Speaker B:And where I come from, the cows are outside all the time and they're eating very wet green grass, just this yellow golden substance that, you know, somebody makes homemade bread and they Put this butter on this bread, toasted bread, and it's what you'll be given if you're very good in this life and they're transitioning you to the next life.
Speaker B:It's this unbelievable experience of fat and deliciousness, and it's incredible.
Speaker B:So Irish butter, really good Irish butter on homemade bread, one of the best things you can ever eat in your life.
Speaker B:Whereas I can understand, you get a loaf here from the supermarket and you're spreading that white stuff on it.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:Not the same thing.
Speaker B:But you can get good.
Speaker B:You can get good.
Speaker B:And certainly in New York, you can get pretty good French butter here.
Speaker B:And you can get Kerrygold, which is all right.
Speaker B:As an Irish butter.
Speaker B:So you can do a replica of that experience.
Speaker A:Wait a minute.
Speaker A:If you're calling Kerrygold all right, and that's generally, nine times out of ten, the only butter I get, which I thought was Irish butter.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So what's fantastic?
Speaker A:So I can get it?
Speaker B:Well, they don't import it.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:But if you go to Northern Ireland, there's two brands I'd recommend, one called Dromona, Golden Cow and their local Northern Irish brands.
Speaker B:And like, if Kerrygold is like a 8, they're like 9.7.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Another notch above.
Speaker B:And on Irish, homemade or, you know, just reasonably decent bread, toast and butter.
Speaker B:It's an ethereal.
Speaker B:The simple experiences are usually the best.
Speaker A:That's what I figured it was.
Speaker B:If you could have, like, my.
Speaker B:My daughter's at ucsd, so every time we visited her, she'll take us to an actually really authentic Mexican restaurant.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And they'll bring out the chips and the salsa and just go, why is this the greatest thing I've ever eaten in.
Speaker B:What's happening?
Speaker B:Yeah, this is the free stuff.
Speaker B:At the beginning of the meal, these people are eating, like, canes, and they don't even realize it, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because the simple thing that's just second nature to them is like, wow, what the hell, you know?
Speaker A:Well, she probably would love Robertos, which is authentic here.
Speaker A:And there's one right down.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Halfway between she and I.
Speaker A:And then the other other is Las Olas, which is Don's favorite places, which.
Speaker A:Which is where we grab lunch right there across the ocean.
Speaker A:I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's 30 from there.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:All right, last one.
Speaker A:Oh, by the way, I gotta finish this on tea, because this is.
Speaker A:Funny thing about tea.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:My wife drinks black tea, which I can't drink, but I'LL put cream in the tea and I absolutely love it.
Speaker A:And then I feel like I'm.
Speaker A:Oh, I feel like I'm in.
Speaker A:In London drinking, you know, and.
Speaker A:Oh, lovely.
Speaker A:But I never put cream in my coffee.
Speaker B:No, no, I don't either.
Speaker B:I have black coffee and milky tea.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:I have a lot of friends who.
Speaker B:Well, it's also quite weird because in New.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:Here's two little weird things in New York.
Speaker B:A regular coffee.
Speaker B:If you go into a bodega and get a regular coffee.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I learned this.
Speaker B:They'll give you coffee with cream and two sugars.
Speaker B:Yes, it's a regular coffee.
Speaker A:In a little Greek cup.
Speaker B:Yeah, in a little Greek cup.
Speaker B:That's a regular coffee.
Speaker B:Which is really weird because if you're in an ambulance or if you find yourself, unfortunately, in an ambulance or a hospital situation in England, that's the tea they will bring out for you.
Speaker B:They'll bring you out tea with milk and two sugars, because that's like the standard, oh, my God, this person's in trauma.
Speaker B:How can we save them?
Speaker B:The only thing that can save them now is a nice cup of tea.
Speaker B:And they bring you out a tea with milk and two sugars and then usually some biscuits.
Speaker B:And then every British person calms down.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Everything is fine now.
Speaker B:It's really funny.
Speaker B:I read a lot of World War II sort of histories and memoirs and stuff like that, and I read this really funny one.
Speaker B:It was unintentionally funny.
Speaker B:It was like Andrew Roberts biography of Winston Churchill.
Speaker B:And they were talking about rationing.
Speaker B: It was like: Speaker B:The U boats are torpedoing all the ships coming into England.
Speaker B:Everyone's stressed.
Speaker B:And the civil servant comes up to Mr.
Speaker B:Churchill and he goes, Mr.
Speaker B:Churchill, we're running out of tea.
Speaker B:We're going to have to do the tree ration.
Speaker B:And Churchill goes, no, we can't cut the tea ration.
Speaker B:Morale will collapse.
Speaker B:That will be.
Speaker B:So the bombs falling on people, that's fine.
Speaker B:The fact that, you know, the Wehrmacht is just waiting 20 miles away across the Channel.
Speaker B:Fine.
Speaker B:The fact that it's raining every day and everyone's miserable, but they can survive that.
Speaker B:But if we cut the T ration, that's the end.
Speaker B:So they don't.
Speaker B:They don't cut the tea ration, you know, because that was.
Speaker B:People have just said, okay, we give up, you know, we can't cope now.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, it's so funny.
Speaker A:It's hilarious to me.
Speaker A:I mean, I Love.
Speaker A:I love coffee more than anything and probably my favorite is Italian espresso.
Speaker A:But I don't know that if I'm in an ambulance heading to the hospital that's going to bring me back.
Speaker B:Well, there's a bit, I don't.
Speaker B:There's a bit in the Duffy book, maybe I cut it, but because you have the, you have the galley, but there's a bit in it where somebody comes to his house.
Speaker B:I can't remember where exactly this is, but somebody comes to his house and Duffy doesn't want him to be there and so he doesn't offer him a cup of tea.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:That's this unspoken thing between them.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:The guy's just going, what's going on?
Speaker B:How come I'm in the house and I haven't.
Speaker B:And Duffy is like just going.
Speaker B:He's starting to get really stressed because he hasn't offered this person just be there a cup of tea.
Speaker B:And they're talking for like another nine or ten beats, like half a page dialogue.
Speaker B:And then finally Duffy cracks, he can't take it anymore.
Speaker B:He goes, oh, would you like a cup of tea?
Speaker B:And the guy goes, no, okay.
Speaker B:And Duffy has to go and make him tea because in Northern Ireland especially you can not offer even your worst enemy.
Speaker B:You can't not offer them a cup of tea.
Speaker B:You just have to do it.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:All these social pressures, you know, you just have to offer the tea and then they say no if they want to or.
Speaker B:But you have to do it.
Speaker A:There was one scene that Duffy walked into a very tense situation and you're thinking, is he gonna get shot, killed?
Speaker A:What's gonna happen?
Speaker A:And the guy goes, would you like some tea?
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh my God, it really is that thing, isn't it?
Speaker B:You know, do you know who George Mitchell is?
Speaker B:He was the senator from Maine and he was Bill Clinton's peace envoy to Northern.
Speaker B: me to Northern Ireland in the: Speaker B:And very good man, I think he was nominated for or maybe won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker B:And I remember reading his memoir and there's this really funny bit in it where he's talking to his wife and she's going, well, how's it going honey?
Speaker B:Because these are hard headed people who've been killing each other for 25 years, hate each other, these crash of worlds views.
Speaker B:And he just goes, and his wife's on the phone to him, she's back in Bangorman and he's in Belfast for the 400th day of negotiations with the rain falling down and these intransigent people.
Speaker B:And she goes to him, what's the worst part of it, honey?
Speaker B:Tell me, George.
Speaker B:And he goes, the worst part of is all the cups of tea.
Speaker B:I've had 14 today.
Speaker B:Because every time he would go to somebody's house, you know, or a new delegation would come in, they would offer to you and he would.
Speaker B:And if he refused it, it'd be a huge diplomatic faux pas disaster.
Speaker B:So he had to have.
Speaker B:So he says he's on his like 14th cup of tea, you know, for of the day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Staving off disaster and he can't stand it anymore.
Speaker B:And he says, just George, just George.
Speaker B:3000 more cups to go and you'll broker.
Speaker B:And he does.
Speaker B:And he brokers the peace process and saves the day.
Speaker A:The fascination, obsession, religion of tea has always cracked me up and is there a.
Speaker A:Now my wife buys a very particular, very fancy schmancy.
Speaker A:It's a two name Twinings.
Speaker A:No, honey, one second, hang on because this is going to kill me.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Tell me what's the name of that.
Speaker A:Tea you buy the fanciest harness.
Speaker A:You'll probably.
Speaker A:Harney and Sons.
Speaker B:Oh, Harney and Sons.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen, I've, I haven't tried that.
Speaker B:Okay, I've seen that.
Speaker A:Yeah, well she, she gets all these different fancy schmancy and I, I always try to act like, oh, this is really the top notes on Spectacular versus this one over here.
Speaker A:But no, I, I don't know anything about.
Speaker B:I, you know, I can't do a tea but I can do a whiskey.
Speaker B:I can tell scotch from Irish and I can tell various different type.
Speaker B:That's, that's what lost me on the West Wing.
Speaker B:There's this moment on the.
Speaker B:I was a huge fan of the West Wing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I loved that show and I loved Aaron Sorkin's dialogue and I loved all the cast and especially I was a huge fan of Toby.
Speaker B:Do you remember Toby?
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Moral center of the show.
Speaker B:And he always had these fascinating.
Speaker B:I love that stuff.
Speaker B:He had fascinating moral.
Speaker B:And nobody else was bothered by it but drove Toby crazy and I loved that.
Speaker B:But then there was this terrible, terrible moment in the West Wing when these are all smart people and then they say we're gonna meet the British ambassador and he's a genius.
Speaker B:He went to Oxford, has a PhD from Harvard and he's this man of the world who's traveled in India and he's this peace broker and then I think it's Toby meets him at the bar and he goes to the bar and at this very, very fancy function, at this very, very fancy bar.
Speaker B:And Toby says to him, well, what are you drinking?
Speaker B:And this guy, Lord John Marbury says, well, I don't even know if they'll have the whiskey I like.
Speaker B:And Toby Sundays, look, there's 34 bottles of whiskey.
Speaker B:It's a very fancy bar.
Speaker B:And then he says, this is the moment that lost me.
Speaker B:He says, well, I like a 16 year old Islay.
Speaker B:And every whiskey drinker, Scotch whiskey drink in the world is going, oh, my God, it's Islay.
Speaker B:It's Hyla whiskey.
Speaker B:You don't say the s.
Speaker B:And not only did the actor not know, the actor playing Toby didn't know, and nobody on the set knew, and the director didn't know and Aaron Sorkin didn't know.
Speaker B:And then they keep talking about this Islay whiskey all the way through the.
Speaker B:And I just thought, I'm done, I'm out.
Speaker B:You know, because before I believed in this universe, I believed all these people were real people and it was the.
Speaker B:They were.
Speaker B:And now I just thought, no, they're all actors.
Speaker B:They're all stupid actors.
Speaker B:Oh, memorize lines and they say the lines and if.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:All the reality was, was destroyed because of this Islay whiskey, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, just.
Speaker B:I was just gonna forget about it.
Speaker B:You know, it's like when you have an English actor pretending to be an American.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And English people always say, for some reason, I don't know why, they always say Madison Square Gardens.
Speaker B:I don't know why they do it.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:No s, right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Madison Square Garden.
Speaker B:Yeah, we know that.
Speaker B:Yeah, Every American knows as Madison Square Garden.
Speaker B:You've seen a Rangers game, Knicks game, One Garden.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, One Garden.
Speaker B:But all English people say Madison Square Gardens.
Speaker B:And then to hear an English guy doing an American accent and say, yeah, we're going down to Madison Square Gardens to see the fight.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's that?
Speaker B:What are you talking about?
Speaker A:Dude, your attention for detail is so good.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker A:I do beg the question because you mentioned several different whiskeys and I know whiskey's a big thing.
Speaker A:What is.
Speaker A:What's like just rot gut?
Speaker A:And then we'll get on with an actual interview.
Speaker A:Maybe what's the real rot gut and what's like the best?
Speaker A:Like if someone said to you, I want to get you a bottle of whatever you want and you can have anything you want, does not matter the cost.
Speaker A:What would it be.
Speaker B:Well, I wouldn't.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:What I would pick for me, I would not pick for other people because I've gone down a dark path into some weird stuff that I don't think other people would like.
Speaker B:So I'm a really huge fan of very, very peaty whiskies from the Western Isles of Scotland, so.
Speaker B:From Mull and Islay and Iona and from Jura.
Speaker B:And I don't think most people would like that.
Speaker B:But a really good one there is Laphroaig, if you want to try it.
Speaker B:Or the last PD of the Beaumore is the Beaumour.
Speaker B:I think they're both.
Speaker B:I would be totally happy to get a bottle of Laphroaig or Beaumore, but if you were just gonna try, I think Johnnie Walker exceptional blended whiskey.
Speaker B:And they've got a guy there, and he's their chief taster and blender, and he takes all the peaty whiskies from the Isles, and he takes all the Highland single malts, and he takes all the Lowland single malts, and he blends them all together.
Speaker B:And he makes this, I think, fantastic blended whiskey for everyone called Johnnie Walker.
Speaker B:And he's been doing it successfully for, like, 150 years.
Speaker B:Like the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The new guy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think Johnny Walker is completely acceptable.
Speaker B:And it's not expansive.
Speaker A:No, There's.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And if I'm recalling it right, there's a black or red and a blue.
Speaker A:The blue is the really top dog.
Speaker A:And someone told me that there is not that significant difference between the three.
Speaker B:I've had the blue and I've had the black, and the black and the red are completely fine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:To go back to the West Wing, though, there was a very funny moment in the West Wing when who was this chief of staff?
Speaker B:What was his name?
Speaker B:Do you remember?
Speaker B:Fantastic actor.
Speaker B:He was Leo.
Speaker B:So Leo is an alcoholic, and he goes to AA and he goes to meetings, and he's done a successful bit of diplomacy with, I don't know, let's say the Indonesians, and they don't know he's an alcoholic, and they give him a bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue and it's delivered to his suite at the hotel.
Speaker B:And Leo's an alcoholic, and then he's just looking at the bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue for, like, having.
Speaker B:And it's a fantastic scene, actually.
Speaker B:And he's just going.
Speaker B:And so what he should do, of course, is open it up and jug it down the sink.
Speaker B:But then he does that worst thing that alcoholics can do, and he just goes, well, I'll just take one sip and then that's it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then the next scene is him opening the mini bar and pouring everything, like the vodkas and everything, because he's already drunk the entire bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue.
Speaker B:And I just go, wow, that's so powerful.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker A:Reminds me of the Denzel Washington film Flight, is it where he.
Speaker A:Remember that one?
Speaker A:And he did a similar thing and he just.
Speaker A:He couldn't get beside himself.
Speaker A:Speaking back.
Speaker A:I want to go back to Aaron Sorkin because there's nobody that writes screenplays like that.
Speaker A:Do you have a favorite of his?
Speaker A:I'm curious because there is a little.
Speaker A:I felt a little Sorkinism in your.
Speaker A:Especially when you're into these.
Speaker A:Between Krabby and him, you know, here, here's.
Speaker B:Here's an interesting observation.
Speaker B:Perhaps I like the screenplay for a film I don't actually like that much, the Social Network.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I don't really like the Social because I hate all the characters.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, they're all loathsome, privileged, awful kids who became loathsome, privileged, awful people.
Speaker B:And they act awfully throughout the whole thing.
Speaker B:But as it's screenplay.
Speaker B:Yes, it's perfect because the screenwriter's job is to give you that world and deliver them.
Speaker B:And he does, and it's brilliant.
Speaker B:So I love that screenplay and his craft and art and skill, but I don't love the film.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I cannot disagree with you because they're all loathsome and there's no arc to them.
Speaker A:They don't evolve and progress to anything likable.
Speaker B:You think at the end that when they're having that meeting in the lawyers office, they will have changed and they haven't.
Speaker B:No, they're all scumbags at the end.
Speaker B:And you just go, well done.
Speaker B:You've given us this world.
Speaker B:I never want to watch this film again.
Speaker B:Right, I get it.
Speaker B:Congratulations.
Speaker B:But I'm out.
Speaker A:Were you ever a fan of Newsroom with Jeff Daniels?
Speaker B:I did like that show.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Killed it.
Speaker A:I would listen to some of the gu.
Speaker A:The behind the scenes and they would talk about how the volume of words they had to memorize volume and then.
Speaker A:And they would shoot a lot of those scenes in single or double takes.
Speaker A:And then sometimes Aaron would show up the day off and go, I need to change this.
Speaker A:And they're like just the single take.
Speaker B:Walk and talks where it's.
Speaker B:I don't know how they did it.
Speaker B:I mean, actors, obviously, they're different brain because they memorize all these words in dialogue.
Speaker B:So it's not like you're memorizing a speech.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:And they have to walk down a corridor and turn around and hit all these marks and wow.
Speaker B:And it's usually in a oner.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Have you seen.
Speaker A:I love all this riffing.
Speaker A:Have you seen Adolescence?
Speaker B:I have not seen that yet.
Speaker A:Okay, okay, just stop what you're doing tonight, okay?
Speaker A:Put down the tea or the whiskey and commit to just one episode.
Speaker A:Every show is one take.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Every episode is one take.
Speaker A:And being a filmmaker, closet filmmaker, as I am, I know how hard it is to create the way the camera moves and never stops.
Speaker A:And you know that if you are 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 minutes in and some guy goes up on his line, cut.
Speaker A:And you got to start over again.
Speaker B:Madness.
Speaker A:Watch it.
Speaker A:You're going to be amazed.
Speaker A:And I can think the only other creation that has done that perfectly was Birdman with.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, Michael Keaton.
Speaker B:Yeah, I like that film.
Speaker B:And a lot of people are saying, oh, what ha.
Speaker B:Nothing happens.
Speaker B:A lot happens.
Speaker A:Are you kidding me?
Speaker A:It's brilliant.
Speaker B:Hey, he, he's.
Speaker B:He walks through Times Square naked.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot happens in that, in that.
Speaker A:The ending of that movie was brilliant.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you know, we haven't covered a whole lot.
Speaker A:We've run out of time, kind of.
Speaker A:I can keep going.
Speaker A:I do want to say, you know, there's so much about Adrian folks, if you don't know.
Speaker A:I mean, the way where you grew up in Belfast and the troubles you're.
Speaker A:I know that you've had, you've had quite a, quite a life of stories.
Speaker A:Bartender, teacher, this, that and the other.
Speaker A:Everyone's, most people are familiar with the Uber driver story.
Speaker A:And, and I, I, I thought I saw thought to myself, okay, author, bartender, high school English teacher.
Speaker A:Was any one of those jobs kind of perfect for crafting a world of storytelling?
Speaker B:Kind of, yes.
Speaker B:I remember, I remember when I worked bar, especially if you work that midnight shift.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:The characters.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:That, I mean, you're doing midnight to 2am and the people who are in the bar then and they open up and they tell you their stories and you're, you know, a lot of times you're thinking, dude, you need a therapist.
Speaker A:You are the therapist though.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you need a priest or a therapist or something.
Speaker B:You just go, but I'm, but okay, I'm here.
Speaker B:And especially when I was a kid and I did all those, those, those.
Speaker B:And I was like 20, 21 and 56 year old guy would come in and hey, he's watching the The Knicks game or whatever.
Speaker B:Blood.
Speaker B:The game ends and he's still there and everyone else has leaved.
Speaker B:And then he'll lean across, he just goes, you know, thinking about leaving my wife.
Speaker B:And if you go, I'm not qualified to give you advice on this matter.
Speaker B:And then he'll tell you the reasons.
Speaker B:And then there's a thousand stories like that.
Speaker B:And, you know, just that, oh, my God.
Speaker B:And the free dialogue and, you know.
Speaker B:But I also really liked teaching high school.
Speaker B:That was also really, really fun because you get to.
Speaker B:When you teach a book, like, we all probably had to read.
Speaker B:I don't know, we all probably had to read the Great Gatsby.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so he's.
Speaker B:Ah, but whatever.
Speaker B:We had to read it when we were 15 or 16.
Speaker B:But if you're teaching the Great Gatsby, you really read it and you really understand it and that.
Speaker B:And then you.
Speaker B:When the kids ask you questions, then you actually know the book, like, really well.
Speaker B:That was fantastic.
Speaker B:I'd never had that experience of really knowing a piece of literature because I didn't do English in college.
Speaker B:I was a philosophy major, so I'd never really went deep into an English literature text like that before.
Speaker B:So that was a real wonderful thing for me.
Speaker B:Really, really understanding all these especially classic texts that maybe seem even a bit dead to us now, like To Kill a Mockingbird.
Speaker B:Who Really.
Speaker B:But when you read it, it's such a beautiful, funny, incredible novel.
Speaker B:Just go, wow, this is no wonder this is a classic because it's hilarious and great.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I really.
Speaker B:Those two bartender.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:And English teacher.
Speaker B:Yes, definitely excellent preparation for thinking about stories, thinking about narrative, thinking about characters.
Speaker A:I would be remiss if I did not mention two books of yours that I read.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, One book that I read of yours, the Chain, which when I finished that book, I was like, first of all, wow.
Speaker A:Second of all, how.
Speaker A:How can no one have ever come up with this story before?
Speaker A:It's one of those.
Speaker A:So you.
Speaker A:You feel like, oh, I.
Speaker A:That story's been told.
Speaker A:And yet you go, no, that's such a unique story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I want that.
Speaker A:And then the island.
Speaker A:But I want to come back to the Chain is the Chain.
Speaker A:I know who your.
Speaker A:Your agent is.
Speaker A:And of course, I almost know the answer to this.
Speaker A:But is that.
Speaker A:That has to be somebody picking that up, Turning into movies.
Speaker B:Yes, it's been.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're working on it.
Speaker B:They were working out for a movie adaptation, which I could never really see working because it's Quite a long book.
Speaker B:And a.
Speaker B:And a lot happens.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Book.
Speaker B:And they were trying to get all that into two hours.
Speaker B:I mean, you could do it, but it's a series.
Speaker B:It's a series.
Speaker B:And so they, they, they tried to do that.
Speaker B:And I read some scripts and they were heroic attempts by smart people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it just felt this isn't.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is a 10 episode or 8 episode series.
Speaker B:So now they're finally doing that.
Speaker B:I can't say where or with who, but that, you know, just makes a lot more sense to me.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And it begs this question, since you're such an exceptional writer, and I, And I know that screenplay writing is completely different from novel writing, but have you ever imagined.
Speaker A:Has Shane ever mentioned.
Speaker A:Have you ever.
Speaker A:Has anyone ever suggested that you do the adaptation or.
Speaker B:You know, I, I have thought about that.
Speaker B:And the advantage, I think, is, you know, the world and, you know, the characters, and nothing has to be explained to you.
Speaker B:No, like.
Speaker B:Like the chain.
Speaker B:Like, I, I lived that nightmare for the six months that I wrote that book.
Speaker B:I mean, that book was written almost entirely at night, and from like 10 at night to like 2 in the morning.
Speaker B:I was in the chain or a nightmare six months.
Speaker B:And so I know that.
Speaker B:Well, so that's the huge advantage.
Speaker B:I think the disadvantage is that an outside voice can come in and kill your darlings.
Speaker B:You know, an outside voice can come in and say, well, this is an important arc.
Speaker B:This is an important arc.
Speaker B:This is an important arc.
Speaker B:This, you know, this thing you have over here that's maybe not so important, and we can lose that.
Speaker B:And you as a, you know, as the creator, just going, no, you don't know the agony went through creating that bit.
Speaker B:That chapter I spent two weeks on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you just want to cut it.
Speaker B:So I can sort of see the pros and cons of both, you know, you being the adopter, but also getting someone who is not you, who can have this, you know, third person perspective, this world eye view.
Speaker B:So, yes, I have to think about that.
Speaker B:I know that when they wrote the movie of the chain, they wrote a fantastic screenplay, and the stuff that they cut, I remember thinking I was being outraged on the.
Speaker B:On my first read.
Speaker B:Why would they cut that?
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:It's horrifying.
Speaker B:And then I thought about it.
Speaker B:Just go, oh, God, these guys know what they're doing.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is, you know, it's smart.
Speaker B:So, yeah, they.
Speaker B:They all, out of all people who are adapting, have to make those kind of decisions.
Speaker B:And I appreciate and admire the, the skill and the craft.
Speaker A:It is a craft.
Speaker A:When I look at the front of your book and I look at all these books that you've written and I can't.
Speaker A:I, I didn't count these up.
Speaker A:There's, there's a lot of em.
Speaker A:You can tell me how many if you want to Just save my face.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What, what has been.
Speaker A:And this is gonna sound simplistic, but I have a real purpose in asking it.
Speaker A:What has been the best part of this journey?
Speaker A:And it's a rather prolific one for such a youngster, such a wee lad.
Speaker B:Such a wee mucker, such a wee slobber.
Speaker A:A slobber.
Speaker A:What's been the best part and what's the part of the business that you despise the most?
Speaker B:I think the best part for me, you know, is always that first draft, that initial idea, and you're, wherever you're writing, let's say you're in a cafe, let's say everyone's asleep in the world, it's midnight, and you finally got an hour to yourself and that blank piece of paper and that, that open textured universe where you could write anything and you could just, you can go in any direction.
Speaker B:And sometimes, I mean, I'm quite a serious planner, so I have planning notebooks and I have planning files.
Speaker B:But sometimes it's just fun to start with.
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:Yeah, what is this?
Speaker B:The guy's walking down the street.
Speaker B:Why is he walking down the street?
Speaker B:Is somebody following him?
Speaker B:What's happening?
Speaker B:Or you know, what's going, and you just don't know.
Speaker B:Is it a short story?
Speaker B:Is it a novel?
Speaker B:Is it going to go nowhere?
Speaker B:Is it going to become something?
Speaker B:I love that part of it.
Speaker B:I think my least part of it is the copy editing, because the copy editors come from a universe where everything you love, they hate.
Speaker B:So you'll have all this slang and made up words and swearing and repetition and all this kind of stuff, and they're trying to save you from yourself.
Speaker B:And, and I get that, but they're so, and, and, and they're a cold, hard breed, the copy editors.
Speaker B:You can't, you know, you get on the phone with them and they're just going, you know, in another life, they would have been Victorian librarians, you know, and the moral certainty of what they're saying, just go, no, I'm sorry, you can't.
Speaker B:You said that word.
Speaker B:You can't repeat that same word three times in a page and just go, well, Hemingway does it.
Speaker B:And they go, you're not Hemingway.
Speaker B:And you Just go harsh.
Speaker B:Okay, I'll think of a synonym.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, I won't repeat that.
Speaker B:You know, so that I always found that the editing, I don't mind because, you know, it's a collaborative process.
Speaker B:But those copy editors, I've always ended up with, stern, tough, hard nosed copy editors who take me to task for my untutored writing and grammatical skills.
Speaker B:Maybe sentence and a verb.
Speaker B:Yeah, what are you in Germany?
Speaker B:You can't do that in the English language.
Speaker B:Did you have any education at all?
Speaker B:Why are you doing that?
Speaker B:Well, I just, I like the way it's.
Speaker B:No, not a little brown.
Speaker B:You don't.
Speaker B:You're not getting away with that.
Speaker B:Not my watch, not on my.
Speaker A:Well, as I wrap, I always ask my guests this one piece, this one, I always end with this question.
Speaker A:And, and I know that you, you're going to have a dandy one.
Speaker A:What is your best writing advice for aspiring authors?
Speaker B:Oh, I.
Speaker B:It's a very, very simple piece of advice.
Speaker B:There are.
Speaker B:There's an entire universe conspiring with you, conspiring against you to make you not finish your kids, your job.
Speaker B:Time, money, exhaustion.
Speaker B:There are evil forces out there don't want you to finish that poem, that short story, that novel, that novella, that screenplay.
Speaker B:They just don't want you to finish.
Speaker B:And so your job is to defy the evil forces and finish it.
Speaker B:And that's your victory.
Speaker B:And it could be a rough and ready, horrible first draft, but that's fine.
Speaker B:You save it in the edit, you do a second draft and a third draft and a fourth draft and 10th draft or whatever, but you've already won.
Speaker B:When you've finished, when you've done the short story, when you've done the novel, when you've written the song, you've written the poem, you've triumphed over the void, over nihilism, over entropy, you've won.
Speaker B:They're trying to stop you from doing it and you've done it.
Speaker B:So finish it, whatever it is, whatever you're working on.
Speaker B:And it's not going to be perfect.
Speaker B:It never is perfect.
Speaker B:And that's what stops so many people.
Speaker B:When I do writers workshops, people just go, oh, I gave up.
Speaker B:Because I know it's not very well written on the first page and you're just going, so finish the story, get to page four and then go back and do the rewrite and maybe you'll lose the entire first page.
Speaker B:Maybe the whole first page will go, doesn't matter.
Speaker B:But just finish it.
Speaker B:Finish it and then save it.
Speaker B:In the edit.
Speaker B:You know, Star wars was saved in the edit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, George Lucas made Star wars and he showed it to his best friends.
Speaker B:And his best friends were Francis Ford Coppola and Steven Spielberg.
Speaker B:And, you know, all those guys at UCLA and USC and they looked at Star wars and they just say, george, this is a disaster.
Speaker B:You're gonna have to find another line of work.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, have you shown this to Fox yet?
Speaker B:Because they're not only gonna not accept this, but they're gonna hunt you down and put a bounty on your head.
Speaker B:You're gonna have to go into the witness protection program.
Speaker B:And that was Star Wars.
Speaker B:And then him and his wife, Marsha Lucas, they went and they fixed it in the edit.
Speaker B:They didn't shoot another square inch of footage.
Speaker B:They just fixed it in the edit.
Speaker B:And you can.
Speaker B:That's the thing.
Speaker B:Finish it.
Speaker B:Do your horrible first draft.
Speaker B:Don't worry about it.
Speaker B:Show it to some people.
Speaker B:They'll laugh at your first draft.
Speaker B:Fix it in the edit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the last.
Speaker B:You get the last laugh.
Speaker A:You know, you can't fix what you don't finish.
Speaker B:You absolutely can't fix.
Speaker B:You can't fix a blank page.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But you can fix four or five crazy pages of a short story that's trying to be birthed into the world.
Speaker A:Well, folks, hang on, St Christopher, if you're a Sean Duffy fan, maybe new fan like myself, you're gonna love this.
Speaker A:Your buddy Don Winslow says Sean is a character you'll never forget.
Speaker A:I have to agree with that.
Speaker B:Very wise man.
Speaker A:Very wi.
Speaker A:Very wise man.
Speaker A:So charming.
Speaker A:And folks, you want to learn more, go to Adrian McKenty dot com.
Speaker A:Adrian.
Speaker A:Ryan Coleman, our mutual friend, said, Dave, you're gonna love this conversation with Adrian.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Just bear with me.
Speaker A:You're gonna love it.
Speaker A:And he was right.
Speaker A:This was fantastic.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was all my pleasure.
Speaker B:All on this side of the screen.
Speaker B:Yeah, my pleasure.
Speaker A:I have a.
Speaker A:A real hankering, which is southern, my roots.
Speaker A:A hankering for a tea and some of those.
Speaker A:A Jaffa Cake.
Speaker A:Jaffa Cake, Yeah.
Speaker B:Is there a.
Speaker B:In your neck of the woods?
Speaker B:There's a world market, I believe, in La Jolla, and I think they might have Jaffa Cakes.
Speaker B:Okay, check it out.
Speaker B:But a British store.
Speaker B:There must be some sort of all things British.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Lovely.
Speaker B:Would you like some Jaffa Cakes?
Speaker A:You've got to go up.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've got Jaffa Cakes.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker B:Got these lovely tea towels with the cane on them.
Speaker B:Would you like some of those?
Speaker A:I didn't ask you, have you.
Speaker A:Are you a fan of Zabars?
Speaker B:Oh, I love Zabars.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Zabars.
Speaker A:And what is.
Speaker A:Is it H and H best bagels?
Speaker B:Bagels, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:When I was doing my morning show in Raid in in New York City, my driver would drop us off at 4 o'clock when they were making those things fresh.
Speaker A:I'd walk in with a bag of bagels at the.
Speaker A:And I was everyone's hero.
Speaker A:There is no better bagel on the planet than the everything bagel from H and H.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:I completely agree.
Speaker B:I was recently in Montreal and the last six months I was in Montreal and for years Montrealers been talking.
Speaker B:Oh, you've never had a bagel?
Speaker B:You've never had a bagel until you go to Matical Isles.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, my goodness, it's the best.
Speaker B:So I finally went to Montreal and I had these little horrible Montreal bagels.
Speaker B:I said, are you kidding me?
Speaker B:You've been gaslighting me for the last 30 years about these Montreal bagels.
Speaker B:How does this compare to a Brooklyn bagel?
Speaker B:Out of your mind.
Speaker B:And just go, no, no, it's delicious.
Speaker B:It's wonderful.
Speaker B:And you just go, is it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's horrible.
Speaker B:You know, if I wanted to have a fight with someone and throw a hard circular rock with a hole in the middle of it, I would pick your Montreal bagel.
Speaker B:But if I actually wanted a delicious fresh boiled baked, crunchy on the outside, soft in the middle, give me a New York bagel and.
Speaker A:Are you a schmear or a butter?
Speaker B:Oh, I'm a schmear.
Speaker B:I like.
Speaker B:You know, this is a religion I've learned, obviously some from Northern Ireland, but I love a cream cheese lox Sunday morning.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker A:Red onion and capers.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not a caper guy.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I never got into the capers, but oh my God, I love it.
Speaker B:It's fantastic.
Speaker B:You know it.
Speaker B:I'd never had.
Speaker B:I'd never had a bagel before I came to America.
Speaker B:I'd never had Mexican food before I came to America.
Speaker B:What else I'd never had?
Speaker B:I never had southern food.
Speaker B:I never had a biscuit.
Speaker A:Oh, buttermilk biscuit.
Speaker A:Yeah, with gravy.
Speaker B:And, and, and I remember the first time I had a biscuit and gravy.
Speaker B:I just looked at it really suspiciously.
Speaker A:Yeah, it looks like vomit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just going, what is this?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Everyone around me was tucking in.
Speaker B:This was at a place in Savannah, so they were doing a pretty good job of Their.
Speaker B:Of their biscuits and gravy.
Speaker B:And then I just gingerly broke off a little.
Speaker B:I was at a writers festival there.
Speaker B:Gingerly broke off a little bit of biscuit and dipped it in the gravy.
Speaker B:And I just said.
Speaker B:I just thought, what's happening to my mouth?
Speaker B:Yeah, These flavors and sensations that I've never experienced before.
Speaker B:And then my question was, how am I going to live without this stuff?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Or what am I going to do without my biscuits and gravy from this little restaurant in Savannah?
Speaker A:You know, so my grandmother, I still have her iron skillet, which was her mother's, would make grits and then do a red eye gravy.
Speaker A:Red eye gravy in the grits.
Speaker A:And then she would make the white gravy over the biscuits.
Speaker A:And of course, either breaded pork chops or fried chicken.
Speaker A:And then green beans with ham hock.
Speaker A:I mean, and sweet tea.
Speaker A:You died and gone to heaven.
Speaker B:It's like everybody who is not from the south or from Europe say their first experience of grits was my cousin Vinnie, when he's explaining that he doesn't use instant grits.
Speaker B:And then Vinnie goes, so you saw them go into the thing, and you're boiling the grits, and you see them come out two minutes later.
Speaker B:Like, do the laws of physics stop on your stove?
Speaker B:In the rest of the world, it takes 15 minutes to boil a grit, but in your stove, it took two minutes to boil the grit.
Speaker B:And so the guy either has to admit I used instant grits, or maybe I wasn't paying attention to the time and it took longer than.
Speaker B:And he's never going to admit in open court that he used instant grits.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:The whole eyewitness case collapses because of it.
Speaker B:So I'd seen that, and I thought, I wonder what a grit is.
Speaker B:Yeah, I get what he's talking about, but I've never.
Speaker B:I don't know what it is.
Speaker B:And it wasn't until I came to America, and I think I was in Oxford, Mississippi, and I went for breakfast and I had grits for the first time.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker A:With ham.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was really.
Speaker B:No, I think I had it with bacon.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that with the ham that you usually get, it's so salty, you know, you're going to be drinking a gallon for days.
Speaker A:Well, I can't decide.
Speaker A:So either I'm going to see you.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'd like to connect with you in New York.
Speaker A:If I make Thriller Fest in June, which is iffy because I have some conflicts, or if you're ever out to visit the daughter.
Speaker A:We'll go to any Mexican joint you want and we will just eat to our heart's content.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Like I say, I could load up.
Speaker B:I could load up on the guacamole.
Speaker B:You know, they just go, you guys, this is.
Speaker B:You're giving this for free?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Stuff.
Speaker B:This is amazing.
Speaker A:And the homemade, there's nothing like it.
Speaker B:Yeah, wait till you eat, you know.
Speaker B:But these guys are eating over here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like fantastic.
Speaker A:Well, I am.
Speaker A:I'm glad it's lunchtime for me because I'm gonna go chow down.
Speaker A:Once Again, hang on, St.
Speaker A:Christopher.
Speaker A:Adrian, I gotta say it again.
Speaker A:Such a hell of a good time.
Speaker B:Hey, thank you, mate.
Speaker B:It was my pleasure.
Speaker B:It was really fun talking to you.
Speaker A:Oh, man, that was so good.
Speaker A:Adrian McKenty, I did not read this, but I'm going to read it now.
Speaker A:There is a and I mentioned this in our as we were going out the green room.
Speaker A:This from Claude Peck.
Speaker A:For a former Star Tribune columnist and editor, Duffy is hilariously literate, an opinionated fun boy ready to defend nirvana against naysayers.
Speaker A:Rock, not pop, authentic jazz, not nervous cocktail music.
Speaker A:Especially like that.
Speaker A:He loves arvo parts.
Speaker A:Brian Eno.
Speaker A:But don't be misled.
Speaker A:Here you go, folks.
Speaker A:This is a cop novel that fully satisfies its genre expectations.
Speaker A:Chases, gun battles, sinister bad guys, questionable cops, cowards and heroes.
Speaker A:Man, such a good read.
Speaker A:Probably one of the most delightful conversations I've had in a while.
Speaker A:And let me say before I go, if you'd like to to reach out to us, drop us a line@the thrillerzonemail.com that's our email.
Speaker A:You can always follow us at the website, the thrillerzone.com and of course you can hear this show wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker A:And let me say, you good buddy Dave Temple here saying thank you so much for spending this time, a considerable amount of time listening to two old guys just talking about things they love like good stories and beverages and teas and coffees and snacks.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening.
Speaker A:I appreciate it.
Speaker A:Share it with a friend if you'd like.
Speaker A:Next week.
Speaker A:Couldn't tell you who's going to be on right now, but I can tell you who's going to kick off May if you'd like to hear want to hear it guy?
Speaker A:I've been wanting to get on the show forever.
Speaker A:I've taken his master class.
Speaker A:I've read.
Speaker A:Geez, I can't think of how many books I've read.
Speaker A:David Baldacci is to be on the show.
Speaker A:Be sure you listen all right, I'm out.
Speaker A:We'll see you next time for another edition of the Thriller Zone, your number.
Speaker B:One podcast for stories that thrill the Thriller Zone.
